Danzig

I have been reading the many threads concerning mergers past, present, and potential. It seems to me that every pilot has a conflicting idea of what a fair integration of the two pilot groups is. It seems to me that a "fair" integration would be to make a new seniority list based on the Date of Hire. In exemplia: Airline A is the buyer, Airline B is the acquired. The most senior captain at A was hired at the company on January 1st 1980. The most senior captain at B was hired on December 31st 1979. In my model, the captain from B would be the new senior pilot at A. Now lets say that the captain from A is on the 777, and has been since his airline bought the 777 fleet. Captain B has only been on the 777 for one year. In this proposed model, Captain B would be junior to Captain A, on equipment, but senior to the company. Does that make sense? Is this a feasible model? How is it done in the real world, and why does it never seem to be fair?

I suppose it comes down to the fact that "fair" is arbitrary. So, what is the "right" thing to be done in these instances?

Does anybody have any better ideas?

Slice

I favor the percentage rule...say you're in the top 20% of the seniority list, you remain there or as close as possible with the new list.

War Eagle 83

Slice ,what if Sir Richard and Virgin America (cause he's got bookoo denero) buys UAL. Now use your relative position theory.VA only has lets say 100 pilots who were only gonna fly little busses. UAL has 10,000 pilots that were gonna end up on the777/767/757/747. Sould they be merged in by percentage or should it be by current equipment & %. Lets take this a step futher into fantasy land. Say Jonnie O and MESA group buy DAL or better yet, ASA now makes a hostile takeover of DAL using DAL's cash on hand(Just like Lorenzo did on more than one occation)the "Keep Delta my Delta" crowd doesn't win this time and ASA is the acquiring carrier. Do you then merge the two lists by relative position ? They are both ALPA carriers after all and ALPA merger policy is what it is and precidents have now been set. It's not pretty, Just a thought.

mike734

Your argument is exactly right. This is why merger of seniority lists are so problematic.

I personally believe you should get a seniority number when you first join ALPA. The idea of a national seniority number has been around a long time but there never seems to be a good time to start it. Maybe now, with record retirements and ab initio programs in the wings, it would be a good time.

Danzig

My dad was telling me that there was a push for a National Seniority list a while back. It seems to me, that such a list would eliminate a lot of the headaches, would allow pilots to have more control over the industry, and would obviously make "merger mania" irrelevant to the pilot group. Why did it fail back when it was being attempted to make it a reality? How can we make it a reality?

btwissel

not to mention the fact that your seniority is no longer tied to a particular company. airline A is treating you like crap, so we all quit and head over to airline C and keep our seniority, pay, and mgmt gets their butts handed to them by their own incompetence.

pilotss

Seems like almost every pilot I talk to these days does not expect to be wearing the same color uniform in ten years as he does presently.

jdt30

The idea of seniority number when you frist join ALPA is a good idea, but what about the military pilots who skip the regionals and go straight to the majors? Military pilots would be way behind the power curve in seniority, while they could have been flying for as long or longer than ALPA pilots.

I guess you could have an ALPA seniority system set up like baseball; AA ball, AAA ball, and then finally the majors. If hired at a regional you receive a seniority number designating that you have made it to a certain level in your career path. Once hired by a larger carrier or major you receive a new ALPA seniority number.

The problem arises again trying to decide which carriers are equal. I'm sure there are plenty of pilots at Airline A that think that someone from Airline B is beneath them regardless of the their seniority.

Someone much smarter then me will have to come up with a solution. I can barely get through a post without rambling.

Danzig

What if Military Pilots were issued seniority numbers upon completion of UPT, based on equipment and operation (that way rotor-heads would be more fairly positioned, due to lack of fixed wing experience.)

Danzig

My dad - again I make that reference, oh well - once told me that the biggest mistake pilots made, was marrying themselves to any specific airline. And, as you point out, a National Seniority list would eliminate that problem.