Delta Merger Talks to Begin
01-15-2008, 09:59 AM
#61
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
Last thing that I want is to take a part of another airline. I can only tell you what I have been told by people close to the action. I am not going to go search for some article which is written by reporters. They are normally wrong. Like I stated, and in using "Has said" from conversations, with the above names people, you took it to understand that it is in print. I would assume not.
Fact is that even DAL would sell parts if it made economic sense, but our CEO has not come out even stating that they are willing to sell a FF program or MRO. We all know that where there is smoke there is fire.
I can tell you that I am sure that the dialog has come up. Quotable, verifiable, no. Will it happen, probably not, but it does not mean that, that avenue is not being explored.
Nuf said...
Fact is that even DAL would sell parts if it made economic sense, but our CEO has not come out even stating that they are willing to sell a FF program or MRO. We all know that where there is smoke there is fire.
I can tell you that I am sure that the dialog has come up. Quotable, verifiable, no. Will it happen, probably not, but it does not mean that, that avenue is not being explored.
Nuf said...
01-15-2008, 12:14 PM
#62
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 12,012
01-15-2008, 12:23 PM
#63
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 12,012
Here is one article that quotes Tilton & backs up ACL65.
Hot Flash - Monday, October 29, 2007
Now, We Can Talk Mergers
United's Perfuming Itself
It's about as subtle as a IED attack.
United has clearly tossed itself onto the sale block. Not to mention the chopping block.
They're apparently clearing the decks to make themselves an easy pick-up. They're talking about selling off parts to, in the B-school-ese they're paying dearly for, "unlock shareholder value." Not to mention shed stuff that might be duplicative in case somebody wanted to buy them.
United appears to be transforming itself from an airline into an acquisition target. They've hired consultants to "review" spinning off their maintenance operations - translation: spin'em off as fast as possible. They're talking about selling off other parts of the company, too. Parts that once gone might make United more attractive. And with cash in the till, too.
Then we have the CEO who was reported to have blurted out to an employee meeting that the choice is a combination of United with another carrier, or back into bankruptcy.
"Would you rather merge or wind up in bankruptcy, again?" Tilton said he bluntly told United employees when the topic was broached in an open forum. "Can we agree on one thing: We all want to grow."
Subtle, eh? A heck of a compliment to a management team that had the airline in Chapter 11 for three years. And merging - or being acquired means growth? Maybe to whoever's feeding this babble into United's front offices. Maybe to the financial houses that'll make millions. But certainly not to employees.
This presents a real challenge for the rest of the industry. Since UA is hell bent on selling itself, it's not out of the question that somebody will look at buying. That means that every airline out there has no choice but to sit down and accomplish a lot of "what-if" scenario planning regarding their strategic options.
Buy United? Encourage a competitor to do so? Make a play for key parts? Plan a regulatory attack, with the intent of stripping key parts (like the Tokyo fifth-freedom rights) from a potential merger? Might the PBGC try to grab some of the spin-off cash? Might the Star Alliance be interested in doing something? Go after ORD slots? Lots of competitive options out there. One thing, at least at this point, seems to be certain. United's management really wants to sell.
So if United wants to sell itself, it's going to sell itself. And somebody - or somebodies - will end up buying all or pieces of the entity.
Stand by for some really innovative competitive responses.
Now, We Can Talk Mergers
United's Perfuming Itself
It's about as subtle as a IED attack.
United has clearly tossed itself onto the sale block. Not to mention the chopping block.
They're apparently clearing the decks to make themselves an easy pick-up. They're talking about selling off parts to, in the B-school-ese they're paying dearly for, "unlock shareholder value." Not to mention shed stuff that might be duplicative in case somebody wanted to buy them.
United appears to be transforming itself from an airline into an acquisition target. They've hired consultants to "review" spinning off their maintenance operations - translation: spin'em off as fast as possible. They're talking about selling off other parts of the company, too. Parts that once gone might make United more attractive. And with cash in the till, too.
Then we have the CEO who was reported to have blurted out to an employee meeting that the choice is a combination of United with another carrier, or back into bankruptcy.
"Would you rather merge or wind up in bankruptcy, again?" Tilton said he bluntly told United employees when the topic was broached in an open forum. "Can we agree on one thing: We all want to grow."
Subtle, eh? A heck of a compliment to a management team that had the airline in Chapter 11 for three years. And merging - or being acquired means growth? Maybe to whoever's feeding this babble into United's front offices. Maybe to the financial houses that'll make millions. But certainly not to employees.
This presents a real challenge for the rest of the industry. Since UA is hell bent on selling itself, it's not out of the question that somebody will look at buying. That means that every airline out there has no choice but to sit down and accomplish a lot of "what-if" scenario planning regarding their strategic options.
Buy United? Encourage a competitor to do so? Make a play for key parts? Plan a regulatory attack, with the intent of stripping key parts (like the Tokyo fifth-freedom rights) from a potential merger? Might the PBGC try to grab some of the spin-off cash? Might the Star Alliance be interested in doing something? Go after ORD slots? Lots of competitive options out there. One thing, at least at this point, seems to be certain. United's management really wants to sell.
So if United wants to sell itself, it's going to sell itself. And somebody - or somebodies - will end up buying all or pieces of the entity.
Stand by for some really innovative competitive responses.
01-15-2008, 01:49 PM
#64
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2006
Position: 737 CA
Posts: 2,750
That's all you got? "talking about selling parts" is the ff program and united services which was covered extensively in the media about UAL and AMR. Air Canada sold off their ff program, so far...so good. Where does it talk about selling routes or authority? Where it contemplates competitor responses? That is in the context of other airline responses. Read it again.
Last edited by jsled; 01-15-2008 at 02:14 PM.
01-16-2008, 05:11 AM
#66
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: B777 Capt
Posts: 844
I am sure you are privy to discussions at the highest levels and are so tight lipped with your intel you are ready and willing to divulge it on the forum of FI.
Here is some of the intel that has been floated at UAL. UA only wants the DL ATL and JFK ops. Yep, uncle Tilty wants to be a buyer also. Heard that from a good source within the company but I believe nothing until I see it. So be careful what you spread as your FACTS are more FICTION. I think each would like to have pieces because that is the best fit. But overall the shareholder value to UAUA, DAL or any other company would be significantly diminished in a partial sale versus the entire operation. The most money is in the whole enchilada- price per share or stock swap. Versus selling pieces. Pieces leaves UAUA with a lower share price over the long term and that is not what these guys are about.
01-16-2008, 07:17 AM
#67
Can't abide NAI
Joined APC: Jun 2007
Position: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
Posts: 12,012
Lambourne - Delta's Management makes themselves available and publishes a lot about what is going on within the Company. ACL65 is a pretty good reporter.
None of these mergers seems to make a whole lot of sense, other than folks seem to agree that CVG, MEM and SLC are on the bubble.
Candidly, it seems these proposed mergers would be best for American, who could enjoy watching the combined entity sink under its own debt while trying to manage huge displacements, fleet changes, schedule, marketing, training, infastructure, accounting, contractural, feeder and control changes.
As employees, I think it is hard for us to accept that this deal is not about creating a strong international airline with a solid future. This is about insiders getting rich off the transaction. Really, all the low hanging fruit has already been picked during bankruptcy and the "synergies" can be gained by virtual mergers like what SkyTeam has become. Structurally, the merged airline is likely to be a crippled competitor for American.
None of these mergers seems to make a whole lot of sense, other than folks seem to agree that CVG, MEM and SLC are on the bubble.
Candidly, it seems these proposed mergers would be best for American, who could enjoy watching the combined entity sink under its own debt while trying to manage huge displacements, fleet changes, schedule, marketing, training, infastructure, accounting, contractural, feeder and control changes.
As employees, I think it is hard for us to accept that this deal is not about creating a strong international airline with a solid future. This is about insiders getting rich off the transaction. Really, all the low hanging fruit has already been picked during bankruptcy and the "synergies" can be gained by virtual mergers like what SkyTeam has become. Structurally, the merged airline is likely to be a crippled competitor for American.
Last edited by Bucking Bar; 01-16-2008 at 07:22 AM.
01-16-2008, 10:25 AM
#68
Happy to be here
Joined APC: Jun 2006
Position: A-320A
Posts: 18,563
Hey buy the ops from DAL. I just do not think that a deal would be done unless it is in the best interests of DAL. They are really big on that. Then again, that will probably be stated until it is announced. Then it will disappear like many things.
Like I said it is being discussed. Also what bucking bar states is true. Lots of stuff comes out of upper management. You just have to be listening for it.
UAL may be the buyer, so be it. You and I do not have a say. But be careful what you post to. Do I need you to quote a source. Fact is that you cannot, just like I cannot, because the source it is something that is desired to be kept quiet, but they want the info out. It is like a gallop poll. If you think that management does not read this to see where the path of least resistance is, then think again.
Either way, I do not want to see either employee group slimed for the sake of a few bucks in the hedge funds pockets. We all have worked to hard and sacrificed to much to get to this point, to have it taken away by someone that does not understand the game.
Like I said it is being discussed. Also what bucking bar states is true. Lots of stuff comes out of upper management. You just have to be listening for it.
UAL may be the buyer, so be it. You and I do not have a say. But be careful what you post to. Do I need you to quote a source. Fact is that you cannot, just like I cannot, because the source it is something that is desired to be kept quiet, but they want the info out. It is like a gallop poll. If you think that management does not read this to see where the path of least resistance is, then think again.
Either way, I do not want to see either employee group slimed for the sake of a few bucks in the hedge funds pockets. We all have worked to hard and sacrificed to much to get to this point, to have it taken away by someone that does not understand the game.
01-16-2008, 11:29 AM
#69
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Position: B777 Capt
Posts: 844
Best of luck to all of us involved in the pendulum swings.
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