Airline Pilot Central Forums - UAL...need one be concerned?

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Quote:

Originally Posted by dvhighdrive88 (Post 305650)

Ok just read th MEC press release Jsled mentioned. First what is a TA? The duty and pay credit ratio...is that similar to a duty rig such as 1 hour for 3.75 on duty or 1 for 4? And what is the mainline guarantee now applicable to the LCO? You all must get bored educating simpleton's like me but this all new...

TA= Tentative Agreement

The Rigs are 1 for 4. Not great by anyones standards but it will help the LCO contract to be at parity for that portion of the terms. The LCO (320 and 737 fleets) still have a higher max cap for the month. The lines can be built to 95 hours (97 with pilot concurrence) and the min days off for both the LCO and mainline contracts is 12. The exception for the LCO is that during 3 designated flex months that the company designates (think June, July and August are the ones they always choose) the min days off can be reduced to 10.

Other than that there are not a tremendous amount of difference between the LCO and Mainline terms.

Hope that helps.

L

I feel reasonable sure that if a merger occurs, TED will be ousTED.

Quote:

I think many on this thread are involved in wishful thinking. Mergers come about for several reasons and none of which are good for new or recent hires.
Merger brings with it route overlap and this means eliminating flying and that means less pilots need to fly what previously required more aircraft.
Consolidation is the word used and this means less seats available hence higher airfares.This all works quite well in theory but then the LCC move in to replace the voids and we end up back where we started. The merger will allow investors to profit and management to profit and this is the basic reality of mergers.
Recently a major fund that had a 5 percent stake in UAL and DAL started the ball rolling on the merger rumor mill and made about 15 million in one days trading. That's the reality of mergers. When and if merger occurs be prepared for furloughs, major pilot infighting over seniority list mergers, differences in contracts, pensions and non pensions and the list is endless. It will be years before the dust settles. The pilot groups will be fractured and not get along for years.
The long and short of it is employees don't win in a merger. If you think it can't happen you need to apply Murphy's Law because it will.
As a example look at the most recent information on the US Air and America West merger. Over three years and still not resolved.
I wish you all the best and hope things can change but history has proven otherwise.

Thanks for an accurate post.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jsled (Post 305304)

So do you guys think UAL will furlough with a merger? Also is there any link to UAL 2000 contract? Thanks.>>>>>>>>>>>>

Ahhhh. The good ol' days........

747-4 747 777 DC10F DC10 767 320 727 737-3 737

1yr 312.53 292.44 270.35 263.05 239.21 221.55 211.56 199.36 188.28 186.46
2yr 312.53 292.44 271.89 265.22 241.18 223.24 213.31 201.17 189.90 188.08
3yr 312.53 292.44 273.30 267.19 242.98 225.01 215.05 202.90 191.58 189.76
4yr 312.53 292.44 274.80 269.30 244.90 226.80 216.83 204.64 193.39 191.58
5yr 312.53 292.44 276.36 271.49 246.89 228.59 218.63 206.47 195.20 193.40
6yr 312.53 292.44 277.77 273.46 248.68 230.29 220.32 208.14 196.93 195.13
7yr 313.40 293.22 279.31 275.34 250.39 231.82 221.92 209.85 198.68 196.89
8yr 314.27 294.05 281.17 277.64 252.49 233.77 223.79 211.60 200.44 198.64
9yr 315.03 294.79 282.71 279.53 254.20 235.31 225.36 213.21 201.94 200.15
10yr 315.98 295.67 285.02 282.42 256.83 237.74 227.77 215.61 204.45 202.66
11yr 316.74 296.38 287.19 285.22 259.38 240.30 230.20 218.01 206.81 205.02
12yr 318.99 297.20 289.78 288.05 261.95 242.55 232.59 220.39 209.28 207.49

1yr 49.77 49.77 49.77 49.77 49.77 49.77 49.77 49.77 49.77 49.77
2yr 130.33 121.95 113.38 110.60 100.58 93.09 88.95 83.89 79.19 78.43
3yr 187.52 175.47 163.98 160.31 145.79 135.01 129.03 121.74 114.95 113.86
4yr 197.21 184.53 173.40 169.93 154.53 143.11 136.82 129.13 122.03 120.89
5yr 200.18 187.31 177.01 173.89 158.13 146.41 140.03 132.24 125.03 123.87
6yr 203.77 190.67 181.10 178.30 162.14 150.15 143.65 135.71 128.40 127.23
7yr 207.94 194.55 185.32 182.69 166.14 153.81 147.25 139.24 131.82 130.63
8yr 212.13 198.48 189.79 187.40 170.42 157.79 151.06 142.83 135.29 134.08
9yr 213.27 199.57 191.40 189.24 172.10 159.30 125.57 144.34 136.72 135.50
10yr 214.71 200.91 193.67 191.90 174.52 161.54 154.77 146.51 138.92 137.71
11yr 216.01 202.13 195.87 194.52 176.90 163.89 157.00 148.68 141.04 139.82
12yr 217.87 202.99 197.92 196.74 178.91 165.66 158.86 150.52 142.94 141.71

Those were the 2002 rates, which were the highest attained before the paycuts on 1/1/03. Had they made it to 5/1/04 without a paycut those rates would have been (for 12th year pay, because I'm too lazy to post the rest):

Captain

B744 = $355.82
B742 = $326.45
B777 = $316.45
DC-10 = $286.06
DC-10F = $314.56
B767/757 = $264.87
A320 = $253.99
B727 = $240.67
B733 = $228.54
B732 = $226.58

First Officer

B744 = $243.03
B742 = $222.96
B777 = $216.13
DC-10 = $195.38
DC-10F = $214.84
B765/757 = $180.91
A320 = $173.48
B727 = $164.38
B733 = $156.09
B732 = $154.75

International override pay was $8/hr, $6/hr and $4/hr for CA/FO/FE

Per diem on 4/1/04 would have been $2.40 domestic, $2.90 international.

Sick pay of 6hrs per month

14 days off/month for flying the Shuttle by United.

Vacation at 14 days/year through yr. 4, 21 days/yr through yr. 8, 30 days/yr. from 12-18years of service, 37 days for yrs 20-25, 44 days per year after 26 years of service.

Night differential was 15/10/5 per hour for CA/FO/FE.

I wish this industry would get back to something close to what we were promised back in year 2000. :rolleyes:

Good luck to all of us in the coming years.

GP

Quote:

Originally Posted by GuppyPuppy (Post 306319)

I wish this industry would get back to something close to what we were promised back in year 2000.

Exactly! People believe the pilots at Southwest, FedEx, and UPS are making a killing, when in fact they are still much much less than United had in 2000.

The good news for pilots negotiating...the precident has already been set. You just have to negotiate. Don't settle for less than you had years ago!!

unbelievable, the pay compared to now....

[quote=iahflyr;305254]
They are working under a concessionary contract right now, but that will all change when contract negotiations open up in about one year. Take a look at their contract 2000. I would expect nothing less for their next contract. Just look at the leadership APA is providing. They are asking for their 2000 level pay plus inflation over the past 7 years (over 30% raises). Things will get better at United.

Just my two cents....but anyone who thinks that Glen Tilton or any other CEO in this industry is going to buy into a carbon copy of United's Contract 2000 in this day and time is delusional at best. Will the pendulum swing back towards a better contract...absolutely. Will you see the equivalent of $ 225,000/yr for a B-727 Captain working 15-17 days a month ? Dream on. Ye gads...I'd go back for that.

G'Day mates !!

[quote=Phantom Flyer;308410]

Quote:

Originally Posted by iahflyr (Post 305254)

They are working under a concessionary contract right now, but that will all change when contract negotiations open up in about one year. Take a look at their contract 2000. I would expect nothing less for their next contract. Just look at the leadership APA is providing. They are asking for their 2000 level pay plus inflation over the past 7 years (over 30% raises). Things will get better at United.

Just my two cents....but anyone who thinks that Glen Tilton or any other CEO in this industry is going to buy into a carbon copy of United's Contract 2000 in this day and time is delusional at best. Will the pendulum swing back towards a better contract...absolutely. Will you see the equivalent of $ 225,000/yr for a B-727 Captain working 15-17 days a month ? Dream on. Ye gads...I'd go back for that.

G'Day mates !!

Phantom Flyer,

Whats wrong with pilots who want to better there lot. It's distractors like you who make me sick. Always telling others to bring the bar lower. You know if a bunch pf pilots wanted to fight for a million dollars a year. I would cheer them on and hope they get it. Your type puts obstacles in there way and hopes they fail. Your sad.

I think what Phantom Flyer was trying to say is that a responsible CEO will not and should not subject the company, stockholders and other employees with a contract that the company can not pay. That is not repsonsible. I think Phantom Flyer, would love to see the rates that were pre 9/11 as it helps all of us on our contracts. However, the goal really should be to have contracts the restore the profession and give raises to keep up with cost of living. I agree with you should ask for the moon during contract talks, but you have to be ready to settle for less. Only that pilot group knows what they should accept. Better to get paid a good buck for a full career than a million dollars for a day, don't kill the goose that lays the golden egg.

We can argue what pilots should be paid all day, and I agree, all pax pilots especially deserve to get back what they lost, but you do have to remember these companies are here to make a profit first and foremost.