Air Tran'ers, say it ain't so!!
02-13-2008, 01:57 PM
#1
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Air Tran'ers, say it ain't so!!
Here's a little something I heard from a friend of mine which somewhat floored me. To give a little background on him, he worked at AT for about a year and some change and absolutely loved it. He had to resign because of family issues (basically couldn't be on the road all that much). He is also about the most honest person I know, so he isn't bashing AT or anything like that.
I wanted to ask him a few questions about AT and he started by saying "well I'm sure you heard about the talk of SWA buying AT and selling all of the 717's to Midwest and keeping all the 737's. I'm not quite sure what is going to happen to the pilots."
My jaw kinda dropped and I didn't really know what to say. I know there has been a lot of talk about the mergers/buyouts, and even SWA merging or buying someone out. Has anyone out there heard this? I start at AT in April, am 31 so I am sure a 717 is in my near future.
I wanted to ask him a few questions about AT and he started by saying "well I'm sure you heard about the talk of SWA buying AT and selling all of the 717's to Midwest and keeping all the 737's. I'm not quite sure what is going to happen to the pilots."
My jaw kinda dropped and I didn't really know what to say. I know there has been a lot of talk about the mergers/buyouts, and even SWA merging or buying someone out. Has anyone out there heard this? I start at AT in April, am 31 so I am sure a 717 is in my near future.
02-13-2008, 02:04 PM
#2
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Posts: 231
The SWA rumor has been going around a while at AT on and off. I think we own 7-8 of the 87 717's in the fleet so I don't see the whole "selling the 717's to Midwest" thing. I believe the leased ones are on 18 year leases with the oldest in the fleet being from 1999. With the situation Midwest is in and will be in eventually I don't see them being able to take our 717's just like that.
Who knows what'll happen. We're still adding up to 10 airframes this year and will have an 8th straight year of profits I'm sure. I know we have a big target on our backs though since we're small and successful.
Heard of one our more "colorful" captains talking the other day(and we do have a few) saying that Sun Country has approached Bob about a sale.
Crazy, weird business we work in.
Who knows what'll happen. We're still adding up to 10 airframes this year and will have an 8th straight year of profits I'm sure. I know we have a big target on our backs though since we're small and successful.
Heard of one our more "colorful" captains talking the other day(and we do have a few) saying that Sun Country has approached Bob about a sale.
Crazy, weird business we work in.
02-13-2008, 02:13 PM
#3
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Position: DAL-S, B
Posts: 126
I don't work for AirTran, but I'll say this - rumors in this industry are a dime a dozen. I really wouldn't put much stock in anything until the agreements are signed.
Even if the rumor becomes substantiated, it doesn't necessarily mean that it will even go through. In 2001, the Department of Justice disallowed United from buying USAir. In 2006, USAir attempted to purchase Delta, and that was blocked by Delta. Heck, Delta and Northwest are in serious merger talks right now, and no one can be positive that that will go through.
For almost 10 years, I've been hearing the rumor that Continental & United were going to merge (mostly from CAL pilots that really wanted a Denver base!). I've heard that JetBlue is going to buy Frontier. I've heard that Delta is going to buy JetBlue. I've heard that SkyWest is going to buy ExpressJet, and that they're going to buy Mesa. And yes, I have heard the rumor regarding Southwest and AirTran.
Even if Southwest did by AirTran, as your friend said, you don't know what will happen to the pilots. If they were to keep the 737's and sell the 717's, that doesn't necessarily mean that the pilots will go with their respective aircraft.
My best advice in this industry... Don't put too much stock in rumors. You could spend a lifetime giving yourself ulcers over every rumor that involves your company. Make the most educated decisions you can regarding the company that you choose to work for. And always have a backup plan. Just incase one of those nasty rumors actually comes true.
Even if the rumor becomes substantiated, it doesn't necessarily mean that it will even go through. In 2001, the Department of Justice disallowed United from buying USAir. In 2006, USAir attempted to purchase Delta, and that was blocked by Delta. Heck, Delta and Northwest are in serious merger talks right now, and no one can be positive that that will go through.
For almost 10 years, I've been hearing the rumor that Continental & United were going to merge (mostly from CAL pilots that really wanted a Denver base!). I've heard that JetBlue is going to buy Frontier. I've heard that Delta is going to buy JetBlue. I've heard that SkyWest is going to buy ExpressJet, and that they're going to buy Mesa. And yes, I have heard the rumor regarding Southwest and AirTran.
Even if Southwest did by AirTran, as your friend said, you don't know what will happen to the pilots. If they were to keep the 737's and sell the 717's, that doesn't necessarily mean that the pilots will go with their respective aircraft.
My best advice in this industry... Don't put too much stock in rumors. You could spend a lifetime giving yourself ulcers over every rumor that involves your company. Make the most educated decisions you can regarding the company that you choose to work for. And always have a backup plan. Just incase one of those nasty rumors actually comes true.
02-13-2008, 05:59 PM
#4
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Posts: 296
I've also heard that. As far as the AT pilots go they can pay freeze them and staple them to the bottom of the seniority list since AT Captains make about as much as SWA FO's with the same seniority. That's almost equitable. Someone always loses in a merger/buyout but at least the pay may not suffer. 717 guys are the wildcard. SWA does have almost 400 poolies that were interviewed and deemed SWA worthy where AT pilots were not. An alternative would be to fire the whole AT bunch and guarantee an interview. Re-hire behind the poolies. The way SWA corporate culture is with happy labor they would not want disgruntled pilots messing that up. Only my opinion of course.
02-13-2008, 06:18 PM
#5
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It ain`t so
You guys are all nuts. So SW is going to come into a major hub and just shut down 86 717 flying around. Then replace all the 737 (50 planes) guys with poolies. I'm sure every airline that would like to start ops in ATL would love that. We all have heard the rumors for years(especially that one), SW believe it or not has their own problems right now. Also SW has made it very clear that they want an airline in a fire sale, not an airline they will have to drop over a billion $ on. Yes they have the cash, but cash is king in this business.
You guys are all nuts. So SW is going to come into a major hub and just shut down 86 717 flying around. Then replace all the 737 (50 planes) guys with poolies. I'm sure every airline that would like to start ops in ATL would love that. We all have heard the rumors for years(especially that one), SW believe it or not has their own problems right now. Also SW has made it very clear that they want an airline in a fire sale, not an airline they will have to drop over a billion $ on. Yes they have the cash, but cash is king in this business.
Last edited by NapalmCharlie; 02-13-2008 at 06:53 PM.
02-13-2008, 09:21 PM
#6
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Originally Posted by quaileman
I've also heard that. As far as the AT pilots go they can pay freeze them and staple them to the bottom of the seniority list since AT Captains make about as much as SWA FO's with the same seniority. That's almost equitable. Someone always loses in a merger/buyout but at least the pay may not suffer. 717 guys are the wildcard. SWA does have almost 400 poolies that were interviewed and deemed SWA worthy where AT pilots were not. An alternative would be to fire the whole AT bunch and guarantee an interview. Re-hire behind the poolies. The way SWA corporate culture is with happy labor they would not want disgruntled pilots messing that up. Only my opinion of course.
I have a few friends that are SWA pilots, and none have conveyed that kind of rationale towards a future merger to me. I truly hope you're in the minority...if you even are a SWA pilot. Keep drinkin' that "CULTure" Koolaid.
02-14-2008, 01:07 AM
#7
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Originally Posted by CarlSpackler
Wow, I would expect this kind of a response on flightinfo, but you sir have taken the cake. Why not outright fire the 717 guys? We have no families or career expectations. Thanks for that guaranteed interview though. It worked great for the ATA folks.
I have a few friends that are SWA pilots, and none have conveyed that kind of rationale towards a future merger to me. I truly hope you're in the minority...if you even are a SWA pilot. Keep drinkin' that "CULTure" Koolaid.
I have a few friends that are SWA pilots, and none have conveyed that kind of rationale towards a future merger to me. I truly hope you're in the minority...if you even are a SWA pilot. Keep drinkin' that "CULTure" Koolaid.
SWA is not buying FL. Rumor has been on and off for 8 or more years, and it's not happening.....at least not as long as FL is doing well.
02-14-2008, 06:51 AM
#8
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Originally Posted by C5skippy
Here's a little something I heard from a friend of mine which somewhat floored me. To give a little background on him, he worked at AT for about a year and some change and absolutely loved it. He had to resign because of family issues (basically couldn't be on the road all that much). He is also about the most honest person I know, so he isn't bashing AT or anything like that.
I wanted to ask him a few questions about AT and he started by saying "well I'm sure you heard about the talk of SWA buying AT and selling all of the 717's to Midwest and keeping all the 737's. I'm not quite sure what is going to happen to the pilots."
My jaw kinda dropped and I didn't really know what to say. I know there has been a lot of talk about the mergers/buyouts, and even SWA merging or buying someone out. Has anyone out there heard this? I start at AT in April, am 31 so I am sure a 717 is in my near future.
I wanted to ask him a few questions about AT and he started by saying "well I'm sure you heard about the talk of SWA buying AT and selling all of the 717's to Midwest and keeping all the 737's. I'm not quite sure what is going to happen to the pilots."
My jaw kinda dropped and I didn't really know what to say. I know there has been a lot of talk about the mergers/buyouts, and even SWA merging or buying someone out. Has anyone out there heard this? I start at AT in April, am 31 so I am sure a 717 is in my near future.
02-14-2008, 06:53 AM
#9
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Originally Posted by B717U2
Two things. First, with the new merger legislation, what quaileman suggests is no longer possible. Second, if he can pass a SWA interview with an attitude like that, any jackass should be able to get hired at SWA, so all the FL guys would certainly get hired.
SWA is not buying FL. Rumor has been on and off for 8 or more years, and it's not happening.....at least not as long as FL is doing well.
SWA is not buying FL. Rumor has been on and off for 8 or more years, and it's not happening.....at least not as long as FL is doing well.
02-14-2008, 07:01 AM
#10
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Joined APC: Dec 2006
Position: I was acquired, Not Hired
Posts: 1,784
I couldn't get hired at SWA..I have the wrong type ratings
.
I don't work at TRS, but have heard the SW / AT rumors for 6 months or so.
As an outsider, everything I read is that Air Tran has carved out a niche and even Southwest has essentially planned to co-exist with them (as opposed to poaching their routes). This being said AT, has poached on some of SWA's routes with many point to point flying outside of their ATL hub.
Hopefully, I'm not getting off-thread, but I don't see AT merging with anyone and to be honest I see them wading through the mega-mergers to look for soft spots both in gate space and in destinations after the dust settles.
FF
.I don't work at TRS, but have heard the SW / AT rumors for 6 months or so.
As an outsider, everything I read is that Air Tran has carved out a niche and even Southwest has essentially planned to co-exist with them (as opposed to poaching their routes). This being said AT, has poached on some of SWA's routes with many point to point flying outside of their ATL hub.
Hopefully, I'm not getting off-thread, but I don't see AT merging with anyone and to be honest I see them wading through the mega-mergers to look for soft spots both in gate space and in destinations after the dust settles.
FF
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