How can I shut him up?
 

Howdy all,

I fly for a regional but wanted the insight of those with a few more gray hairs. I need advice with a touchy problem: I am flying with a CA who will NOT shut up. He talks continuously (non-flight related) from engine start to shut down. It is to the point I am missing radio calls and getting distracted during critical phases of flight. Ironically, during checklists, the one time I DO want him to speak up, he rifles through them so fast I have don't know when to reply or what I am replying to.

In my 40s, I am no spring chicken and have ten years 135 time; he is in his 30s at his first non CFI job. I have politely and privately asked him to go easy on the chatter when I am flying hoping he would curb the chatter. It worked for the next couple legs, but his old ways soon returned.

On one leg, we were empty and the FA came up to the jump seat to watch. My CA started listening to his iPod. He decided the FA needed to hear a couple songs, so he placed one of the ear buds against his mic. At the time, I was talking to center trying to keep us out of the worst weather and still make some time. Center gave us a choice of long and smooth or short and choppy. Had I been CA, I would have answered immediately, but as I was not PIC, I asked my CA for his preference. After not hearing the reply after two attempts, I yelled "Turn that G.. D... thing OFF!" A few minutes later, he asked me if the iPod really bothered me that much, "Yeah, when I can't hear a D... thing you are saying, it does."

So, I have another long trip with him. I do NOT want this to get hostile nor do I want it to affect my work. So what do you all suggest?

Thanks for the help,
j

Trip trade it or call in sick!

Man, this may sound drastic, and I hate to sound so anal, but I would call the chief on this. Simply because you would be held just as responsable for any violation (or worse) which may come from this guy yapping at the wrong time.
On a side note, I am not sure who you fly for. I am just an FO-in-training and have yet to go to sim. But my company spent several hours in indoc hammering this very situation into our heads. I could be completely over reacting here. Just my 2 cents.

De-select intercom from your audio panel, or go to speaker. Hopefully he will get the hint.

I would definetly NOT go to the Chief as a first step. IF you can trade, IF you can call in...IF you can't work with this guy, then you go to your Proffessional standards guy with the Union, explain the situation to him/her and Let the Union handle it. This is always done as descreatly as possible.

Don't call the chief pilot whatever you do - that's horrible advice. Does your union have a pro standards committee? You already tried asking him nicely, the next step would be to contact someone from pro standards and have them talk to him. If that doesn't work drop/trade the trip or call in sick if you feel it's unsafe. Going to the chief will bring down a hailstorm that I doubt you want to find yourself in so use that as a last resort. That's what I would do anyway. Don't know what airplane you're on but you can always turn the intercom listen button off (momentarily) if you can't hear ATC over his BS and then shout at him. Good luck.

Just rip his headset cables out of the jacks and tell him to "shut your **# mouth"

thats bull,,why should he have to call in sick and use up his sick time to avoid that jerk. All that will happen is a fellow pilot is stuck with him. Thats not brotherhood. I suggest to make it so he has to call in sick for real !!!!!! this is what private stairways with no cameras are for.

Since you are new you should learn this right away. Call the union/Professional standards before you ever run to the chief pilot!!!

then after he gets done with that and listens to the union's cry for months and months and months and months and months of proper documentation....he might get the chance to put himself on a list to not have to fly with him....

It can be handled a lot quicker then that. And with greater satisfaction....

Always handle things in this order:
1. Try to resolve it with the offending individual. Talk.

If that doesn't work,

2. Tell your captain you are taking the matter to pro stan and go to your union professional standards rep. He should have a more formal chat with the guy. Usually this clears things up. Stress to him that you feel this is a safety issue that is not being fixed at the flight deck level. Nothing personal.

3. If you fly with him after this and he persists, then you can tell him if he doesn't knock it off, you are gonna rat on him to the CP. The professional Mr. Nice Guy approach didn't work and now you have to be a d*ck. Sometimes, some people don't respond to anything but disciplinary action. This is your last resort...even though you are in the right, you probably won't be very popular after doing this. Sometimes the right thing isn't the easy thing.

And calling in sick only dumps this problem captain on some other, possibly less assertive, first officer. You wouldn't be doing a responsible job by doing this.

Just my $00.02.

I'll buy your method of the back stairwell but if you actually think pilots should run to the chief pilot and complain I'd tell you to put your apron on and go help in the back because that's flight attendant mentality.

It was certainly not me who said that,,,it was another poster.....

then we agree, deal with it yourself.

If the worst this guy does is talk then it shouldn't be as bad as it was made out to be. I think this pilot needs to speak up more before it gets to the point where he's yelling at the other guy.

solution for the fast checklist, slow down a lot, so they get the point. reading and responding.

Possible CRM nightmare scenerio here....

I do think keeping inside the cockpit at this point is warrented. You have made 2 attempts to fix this issue, one very reasonable, the other a quick shouting episode (needed). I do think another sit down over a beer or 2 should occur before the next flight (within regs of course). Then if it happens one more time in flight, you have a couple options, it is his plane, so give him controls at all times, and turn the intercom off. Or you keep the controls, and tell him you are turning the radios off (don't actually do it), that could force him to pay attention. Remember its his plane, his flight violation for missing radio calls/instructions. Now I realize this is somewhat outside the box, but this guy needs fixing, and no one wants to be the "rat" if they don't have too.

Overall point here, give it one more shot before going outside the cockpit.

And good luck, you should not have to deal with BS like this.

I flew with a guy like that once at my former employer. He kept telling me a story right up to 2000 ft AGL. He ended with, "What do you think?" I responded, "About what? The stupid story you just told me or landing gear up?" I then gave him my best deer in the headlights look. After that I just quit talking to him.

Then there was a guy that wouldn't shut up about the Lear and how great of an airplane it was because he flew it for 6 weeks at another company.

Good luck, it is a tought spot to be in.

:cool:

Make him read the Comair5191 accident report (LEX) and then say, "Sound familiar?"

This guy (the unprofessional captain) is flying our spouses and kids around-- and he is compromising their safety.

Do something quickly (talk to him, go to pro standards), and if you don't feel that your concerns have been addressed immediately, you must go to the CP. It will not be popular, but it could very well save lives.

Tell him that you think he's attractive and ask if he's ever considered a relationship with a slightly older man?

He'll shut up. Heck, he'll probably be the one to call in sick. If it doesn't, ask one of the male flight attendants for some homo-erotic porn and next time he pulls out his IPOD, ask him if he would like to read the magazine you brought.

--- it will work ---

Or, simply tell him that he's distracting you and while he might be god's gift to communications in a noisy RJ, you are not and as a favor to you, could he focus on flying to help avoid mistakes...

There is nothing about this that needs to end in a Chief Pilot's office. That would look bad for both of you.

"*** was that????" Look around worriedly, "shush! quiet!" "Did you hear that?" "There it is again!!"

Tell him that other carriers have a "sterile cockpit" policy (like DAL) below 10,000 feet for safety reasons. No small talk, no chit chat until cruise. Tell him what a great idea you think that is.

The earlier poster had it I think. Tell him. He probably just thinks he is being hip and cool and not realise he is being an arse. Let him know soon because he's probably doing it with everyone. You don't need to be confrontational, this is information that he can use to good effect. Who wants a reputation like that?

http://img.skitch.com/20080214-par3r...smx29ygqty.png

Or you can give him a Cole Haan Leather Messenger Bag and make him look gay and happy!

Colgan decided not to get a Union so he will have to handle it alone.

well in that case just punch him the mouth and say shut the ****** UP!

That's old school!

He'll shut up. Heck, he'll probably be the one to call in sick. If it doesn't, ask one of the male flight attendants for some homo-erotic porn and next time he pulls out his IPOD, ask him if he would like to read the magazine you brought.

I believe THAT will do the trick!!!!!!!!!!!!!

"I yelled "Turn that G.. D... thing OFF!" A few minutes later, he asked me if the iPod really bothered me that much, "Yeah, when I can't hear a D... thing you are saying, it does."


Personally I think you said exactly the right thing it it wasn't too harsh at all. I've said simimiar phrases in similar situations many a time! and it usually worked.

Enforce the sterile cockpit -
No non-essential conversation below 10,000' and nothing within 1000' of a target altitude.
If they still wish to talk, remind them about the sterile cockpit and if they STILL want to talk, then you can just ignore them for anything that's not flight related. I know it may be difficult to do, but if you stop responding (no head nodding either!), they will stop talking - Everyone eventually gets the message.

Thanks for all the input.

I want to keep the problem between us: I have never thought of running up the chain of command unless there is absolutely, positively no other way. That is why I have sought your ideas.... and you have given me several.

I will start with another friendly chat before flight. If needed, which I expect it will, remind him nicely and ON THE TAPE that the sterile cockpit light is on. And keep doing it as necessary until he gets the hint. If he thinks I am being a jerk, so be it.

By the way, the award for most creative suggestion goes to:

but I think I will just gaze into his eyes and say, "You know, I've always loved you." I just hope he knows I am a pitcher not a catcher :)

Wish me luck!

Thanks
j

re
 

this all part of the joy of a crew'ed cockpit....if you have 10 years in 135 you ahould know how to handle this by now........dont mean to sound harsh but thats the reality of it

all my prior time is single pilot...

boxes don't talk and pax don't wear headsets


but thanks for the help

No one likes a rat.

Noone likes Texas Pilots:eek:

There's almost never a reason to go to the CP. He is not your friend. Pro standards all the way.

Union and then trip trade would be the way to handle this .

Simply go to your happy place and enjoy it. I finished a 4 day a few weeks ago with a guy like that. You couldn't get a word in edge wise and if I could have slit my wrist with the plastic fork from my lunch I would have. The guy was highly bright but it was a 4 day marathon of free form thought and prose. Finally on return from the west coast I he told a four hour story of how he met his wife. This somehow transitioned to how he took multiple road trips in the Air Force to go cross country, snow ball fights, water balloon fights, his kids are toolbags, and his favorite colors. Somewhere over western TN as the sun was setting I just looked at him and totally forgot myself. I uttered something along the lines of "Biff, I don't know what the F*&$ you're talking about, but you f*&$ing lost me back over the rockies". He just kind of looked at me for a second then continued unabated.

That's why you upgrade when the time comes. I don't ever remember an FO talking my ear off in previous lives. But Captains, you just have to roll with it. Now that being said, down below 10,000 ft. in sterile cockpit, just start asking him after every ATC transmission "Was that for us?". Pretty soon he will be paranoid and stay focused on ATC and stay shut until you park at the gate.

Good stuff, I didn't know that the CP was such a bad guy. I wouldn't want the guy to lose his job, I was thinking along the lines of someone other than the FO telling him to shut it. Obviously the wrong way to approach this. Glad this came up.

No offense but it sounds like you didn't have the guts to say anything until the iPod incident. That's if you think his actions are that serious and unsafe. You're a grown man. You can work it out with him. Maybe he doesn't think you give a *******. Tell him you're upset and uncomfortable with the way you're operating. I'm sure he'll change his ways while flying with you. If not, increase the base in your voice a little while voicing your displeasure. Like I said, your a grown man. work it out. That will bring quicker results that trying to work it out on APC.

Not that I've been flyin for a way long time but in my 12 years of airline flying, I'd feel going to the Chief Pilot would be more of a failure on my part than your CA's. Just man up if someone is that uncomfortable with it. Going to the Chief has to go against one of the Man Laws.