ewrbasedpilot,
You know, UPS and Fedex are extraordinarily profitable and make billions in profit every year, even after 9-11 and high oil prices, is that 'totally outrageous" and a "problem"?
The oil companies profit margins are not so out of line with other business'. Should UPS and Fedex be compared to pax airlines for reasonable profits? allowed? Tax the Oil or UPS and Fedex, they pass the extra tax on to the consumer. Airline managements see it as an opportunity to blame pilots for extra cost and lower prices to compete. Your right, too many spoilers. Perhaps the bankruptcies (reorganizations) prop up a failed management to the detriment of the pax airline industry. If more went under, capacity would command a higher price for the commodity of seats. I know, it is heresy.

 

EWR PILOT- It's the airlines' own fault if they can't contol their own supply of seats and price them accordingly. They have now sown the seeds of their own destruction through the glut of RJ's they have created by "doing what everyone else is doing" so that now we have smaller aircraft that burn more fuel per seat clogging the airports and airways. Doesn't sound to me like the airline "managers" were ahead of the curve on that one. They turned their backs on Business 101 concerning UNIT COSTS and became addicted to their outsourcing agenda and have ruined the industry fundamentals and customer service, and now we pay the price.

ALPA, your agent, even organized and represented the very pilots who took your job and flew your routes. They made deals for mainline pilots to be outsourced to the regional level and funded those airplanes with busted retirement plans. At first it was "one level of safety", now it's "one level of service" soon to be followed by "one level of compensation and QOL". I don't know of any other "profession" that would put up with that garbage.

Meanwhile, the Oil Industry managers saw the trends a long time ago, and stopped increasing expensive refinery capacity, have NO INTENTIONS of ever building another one (why bother), and so remain profitable by CONTROLLING THEIR COSTS as well as the supply of THEIR PRODUCT. You should be holding the Oil Industry UP as an an EXAMPLE of how to run a SUCUESSFUL BUSINESS to the nitwits who run our industry.

Shares of Exxon have almost tripled in the last 5 years after a very long stagnation period where oil prices were to everyone's liking, what's the average airline stock done?

Who's responsible for THAT? JP

 

EXCELLENT post...agree whole heartedly.

 

I don't believe there is any such thing as a profit too high. I'm a capitalist, an investor and a believer in the free market, so that is my opinion. Obviously I don't believe in earning money if the means of doing so are illegal or blatantly unethical, and I don't see any evidences of those being practiced by oil companies. Not unlike any other corporation, the execs have a responsibility to the shareholders to make the company as profitable and successful as they can. They are doing exactly what they are supposed to do.

I agree with you 100% that Exxon makes more in profit in one quarter than all the airlines put together since their inception. However, I respectfully disagree with you that it is a problem.

The airline industry, per a study done by and analyst not too long ago, has historically operated at a loss since the beginning of the industry. In other words, if you add up all of the years of losses and all of the years of profits, the industry has historically lost more money than it has ever made.

True, Exxon makes a lot more per quarter than the airline industry as a whole. But it is an unfair comparison. One industry provides a tangible product that must be purchased by the consumer. The other provides a service that most individuals and companies purchase based on discretionary income. One industry has barriers to entry into the marketplace, the other does not have many barriers.

I think one would be surprised that it could be. I don't think a varying degree of daily price fluctuations to be wise. However, a pricing strategy that takes into account the possibility of higher oil prices would be. Raise the prices to a set amount which will take into a account a good range of possible fuel prices. When fuel is high, the prices cover the cost. When fuel is low then enjoy the profits and stash the cash for a rainy day.

That is why your mousetrap has to be much better than the next guy's mousetrap. As I've mentioned before, I don't believe the cheapest ticket automatically equates to a successful airline. Some people do want the cheapest ticket and that is all they look at. Others, like myself, will and do pay more for a ticket because I do not desire the product offered by an LCC. If the ticket price goes up and I really want to go somewhere, I'm going to pay the cost of the ticket.

Some spoilers do exist that are tough on the industry. One happens to be a lack of barriers to entry into the marketplace. Some have talked about government regulation in industry. If one wants the government to get involved with the interest of protecting a given industry, then I think they should be more strict with entry into the airline marketplace. Airliners are cheap, there is no shortage of people to staff the aircraft, and brand loyalty went out the window many moons ago. Combine that with the fact that a lot of people will go with the lowest bidder for their travel needs and it is hard to compete in some markets.

That's part of the game. Sometimes it works to our advantage, sometimes it doesn't. The one common denominator throughout the entire process is that the dictator is the consumer.

Hey, "out there" is a great place to hang out.

 

Did you scream at Bill Gates for all the profit Microsoft made?? This is such a socialist idea that it ****es me off. Just because you need it, you think the government should step in. Rediculous. Go buy Exxom Mobil stock if you want to reclaim some money. As far as why we pay at CAL what we do. Yell at the feds about that. A large tax on Jet fuel. And yes, we should pass it on to the consumer. That's what every business in the world does!!

 

The last time the government stepped in on the oil issue we had the 1973 energy crisis. The politicians can't even run the government why do we want them involved in business?

 

[quote=Led Zep;324372]SIMPLE SOLUTION


First, we need to tell the environmentalists to go shove it and begin drilling for oil anywhere we think we can find it, and that includes ANWR. If the drilling adversely affects how and where a moose has a bowel movement then so be it. The earth isn't supposed to be worshipped, it's supposed to be used.

I hope that this is just a blanket statement by you after you have been drinking. Have you flown over the oil fields in Texas? Talk about an ugly scar on the environment. I am glad that the oil companies have more sense than you appear to. Do you know that very few Americans own the mineral rights under their property? Why not just start drilling for oil in your backyard? Just because we have an overwhelming thirst for oil doesn't mean that we should adopt a scorched earth method of obtaining it. If the Government would quit tinkering with the interest rates, the SEC quit allowing groups both internationally and locally to day trade things would play out in our favor in the short to medium term. The market would stabilize and we would enter an inflationary cycle. This would up the price of the dollar and bring it more in line with the rest of the world. $100 a barrel oil would then seem more reasonable. Just my meat eating, SUV driving, naive opinion.

 

Reviewing the discussion so far, it seems to come down to those who are able to view a set of facts and construct a logical conclusion and those who blindly react to some sound bite they heard somewhere or cast about for some conspiracy.
I learned from all of the posters. Many presented arguments and facts I had not considered and a few made it clear that we, as citizens of this great country and as individuals, are still our own worst enemy.
These boards are a slice of our society and as always, I am astounded by the range of thoughts presented here and in the larger arena of our world.

There is a clear division out there and it seems to run at around 50% of the general population, perhaps 70% here.

 

I think the consensus is to open up the ANWR, build more refineries, and for God's sake, don't elect Hillary or Obama!!

 

I think you're absolutely right. We definitely need more oil people running our government and country. That way they can blame US for the problems of the world. I'm hoping we can go into ANWAR, destroy it, and then move on to Crawford, TX, and start drilling there. Then we'll head to Montana and see what little we can find there............. I don't want to see any more refineries since it'll certainly cut into the oil companies profits, and many here on this forum would HATE for that to happen. They DESERVE to rake in BILLIONS on our backs. Apparently many here LOVE to give up their hard earned salaries to keep management and the oil companies making a nice "well earned PROFIT".