Did you only apply to one airline when you were looking for a job? If not, did you only apply to union carriers with high paying salaries? I highly doubt it. You apply to everyone and hope someone will see you as a potential employee. Do you think that if everyone doesn't get hired by your airline that they are scum and should be denied a JS? Would you never take a job at a smaller carrier if a major or legacy didn't hire you? Pilots like to fly, whether it's cargo, pax, or a combination. Many pilots have to start at the smaller commuter carriers, since they aren't all given a silver spoon at birth. Where are these pilots supposed to get their experience if they don't take the lower paying jobs? Protecting the industry from falling further is one thing, but beating up on fellow pilots is another. I guess your policy is that if a major doesn't hire you, you just take a job at McDonalds...........:rolleyes:

I think you missed Stratton's point. While this profession may be fun and those who pilot aircraft share a common bond, most of us are in it to make a living. That being said, VA coming into Alaska's market in A320s flying for RJ wages really makes it difficult for our contract negotiations. Our management is trying to drag us down to VA wages and we are doing everything we can to hold the line and bring our pay back up. True, VA is a startup airline but that does not excuse the pathetic pay rates for captains and FOs. The VA pilots are subsidizing their company's strategy and by default attacking our pocketbooks. Some like Stratton think that firing a shot over the bow in the form of jumpseats will send a message that this is not acceptable. So, while the pilots at VA stick it to us by flying for crappy wages, how can you fault those who stick it to them by making it tougher for them to get to work? Who exactly is beating who up? Now that is the question.

To CALPilotToo and Eric Stratton.....

First and foremost, opinions are like the orifices that you are presently "sitting" on.....everyone has them. Obviously we do not agree on a few things, but I do respect that you two do have an opinions. This entire point swapping stemmed from CALPilotToo's post.....

CALPilotToo on 3/24:

I personally think we should all go out of our way to welcome these "I'll fly for anything" VA pilots. They'll never get on my jumpseat.
Pilots like this are destroying the industry. I'm getting to the point that if you are not a union pilot in the large regional or major catagories you will not get on my jumpseat.

So I ask you again very simply, Union vs Nonunion pilots. My point was JB is not formally unionized....ie no ALPA, JBPA ect. So keeping with your mantra above, we already know about your view on VA pilots, that is abundantly clear. Would you accept/ deny a JB jumpseater?? After all, there is no "union" there. Just want to make sure I understand you for future reference.

Sure, like you, I want to see the JB's, VA's, and Skybus carriers unionized. There is a right/professional way, and a wrong way to go about "encouraging" this. Going off on your "solo" crusade does more hurt than good. After all, we have enough "funny number" guys here at CAL that mark our reputations as a pilot group marred at best. I suggested in an earlier post, if all ALPA carriers were on board, and the movement was thought out, organized, and group followed/enforced....then I could see your point of nonunion pilots restricted from jumpseats.....the group effort through the correct channels can be productive. Have you talked with the MEC, or your LEC about this agenda?? Why don't you take a break from you circus side show and redirect your energy towards making Contract '08 something that we can call a "real step up"??

CALPilotToo 3/24:

Admit it.

Being a west coast commuter you simply want as many options as you can get. If Go Jet started flying LA to EWR you'd be all over that. Your position is a position of selfishness to your decision to commute. You could care less what the pilots of the likes of VA are doing to your overall career.

Also, when CAL has to furlough and if it gets to you don't worry. VA will be happy to hire you while they are expanding but the pay will be half what your making now. Good luck to you over there. Hope it works out for ya.

Short sighted is all this is. Again, this is why the scabs at CAL have survived and prospered. No retributions what so ever.

Next tiem you see a CAL scab, a United scab, a VA pilot, or a GO Jet pilot give em a big wet kiss for me and apologize to them as well for my behavior.

When did I ever say I live on the "west coast"?? Do me a favor, before you act so ignorant again, please pull your head out of your "orifice" that was mentioned in the opening line. Please look deeper than the obvious icon to the left, and think on all levels before you talk. You calling me "Short Sighted" is like the pot calling the kettle black. If you must know, I live in the state of Texas. All my on/offline JS for work and otherwise happens to be done on "unionized" carriers being that this a "big" deal from your words above. There is no "selfishness to your (my) decision to commute." That you are right for the fact that I am not a "west coast" commuter......Wow, "look at the big brain on CALPilotToo!" I hope you treat your FO's, and other coworkers with a bit more respect than you have displayed to this one.

Eric Stratton 3/24:

I honestly don't care if they are union or non union it's about undercutting this industry to get ahead. (think gojets) I will add that most non union carriers seem to do less for raising the bar then
do union carriers.

Please define "undercutting"?? To let you in on a little two part secret "E," first Contract '02 is close, and second, undercutting has gone on for the last 6+ years....more so on the regional levels, now filtering upwards. If you want to spilt hair and get right down to it, it was pointed out to me by a Captain from another Major Airline while on his JS out of RNO that in a sense we (CAL) is undercutting other majors. By that, he asked what 4th year WB (B777) pay was....$96 now at CAL.....looking at AA $116, DAL $113, UAL $110......Rightfully so, this Captain had heartburn from the '82&'83 guys/gals, and I was a captive audience for him to vent.....but does he have a point "E"?? "02 was a concession, but in comparison, are we undercutting those carriers mentioned above on the basis of wages and Mr. Tom Stivala's work ?? Where does it stop?? My point is that this is a loose term and can be redirected on several levels.

In closing....."random redoric" and "maverick solo actions" appear huge in your world. With that said, I doubt that I will opt to miss much sleep. In the future, I hope that your hardline redoric and karma does not catch up after a night of "long necks" and "gum flapping". Who knows CALPilotToo and "E", there maybe some "nonunion" pilot near by who just may show you the wood shed along the stick of truth. Maybe eating "3 squares" a day by straw few a few weeks, you will have plenty of time to ponder your "well thought out plan of action."

Good luck on the crusade and let me know how it goes for you guys.

I applyed at the airlines I wanted to work for and that doesn't include the lower paying airlines. when did I ever say that certain pilots were scum? I don't think I did, can you find it.

are you saying that jetblue and virgin are places to build time and get experience? I'm bet most pilots their don't feel that way.

you say that protecting the industry is one thing but beating up on a fellow pilot is another. aren't the pilots who undercut you beating you up as well.

If I lose my job I doubt I will look at another passenger airline out their. have you seen what they make these days.

I don't know about mcdonalds but my manager at pizza hut (college job) made mid $40's and that was a long time ago. :(

At the rate things are going today, any and all airlines are undercutting each other. If CAL is the highest paying airline at the time, then anyone who applies and gets hired somewhere else is proverbially "lowering the bar", correct? So it goes without saying (according to your post) that ANYONE who gets a job at a lower paying carrier is lowering the bar and beating us up.

No, you are wrong again. Where did you learn reading comprehension anyway? Salaries are not always going to be equal but paying a A319/320 captain 60/90K a year is lowering the bar and "beating us up." Also, many majors got their salaries slashed by bankruptcy laws. Unlike the up starts in question, the pilots at these airlines are fighting to get their wages back...not sitting back bragging about how great their low paying job is. There is a movement going on to restore contracts and get the pay back up. Maybe you should get in the fight. Oh, and take a reading class or two.

I guess I shouldn't expect you to understand what I am taking about. you're the one who likes to tell people that a lot of the problems from 911 were the results of putting people in hotels for a couple days:rolleyes: and you defend your management when they wouldn't cover the medical bills of a jumpseater who got 3rd degree burns due to an on board fire.:(