So when you went to a car auction and bought a repossessed car, it actually was the car's clever reorganization plan that made you a subsidiary of the car was the reason it made it out of the lot......LOL!!!!!!

No you had a piece a crap airline(AWA) with no future i.e(weak profits if good times with terribly compensated employees and operating as the #2 dog to Southwest in both of its hubs see an opportunity in merging with an airline restructuring in the highest yielding markets in th country with an international network and had over the last few years received 1.7 billion in annual employee concessions including pensions. Large funds and capital investment groups were willing to invest over a billion in US Airways and AWA just became the shag seat covers tossed in on the car that the money was being put down on, paid by new owners. AWA pulled in a few extra dollars and they got to be part of the ride instead of sitting on the shelf and being in the same boat Frontier is in today.

Wow, with such genius, it is no wonder pilots are making crap wages. It must be hard to think you are a wheeler dealer out buying companies and getting paid peanuts to fly airplanes. Why doesn't Lakeshore and Par Capital, and AC Holdings give you the millions you deserve for being the mover and shaker behind putting the deal together?

AirWhisky,

You know now that you pointed this out, I have to question the timing of SWA's move into Denver. Did they see that with our merger that they would not be able to own PHX and LAS. Hence they picked a secondary target, Frontier, and pounded on them until they went broke.

One thing that I always respected about AWA was that they seemed to hold their own against the SWA pounding. But I think you are right. They probably would have been in Frontiers boat or worse if the merger had not happened.

Federal Statutes trump all state right to work laws as was stated earleir. Agency shop agreements are allowed.

If the contract ALPA had with both sides of the new USAir had agency shop provisions, they'll still be in force until amended at a later date. Same goes for LOA's and the like. USAPA is in a caretaker position on the current contract and has a duty to fairly represent all pilots -- east, west, members and non.

With that said, absent a contractual provision nothing requires that anyone pay a contract maintenance fee or their dues through a checkoff procedure. It's a convenience for the member and more significantly allows the 'union' to have a steadier income flow. You can still pay your obligation by check and snail mail every month. Take that for what it's worth.

Just don't go off the deep end and put yourself in a position of losing you job because you don't like USAPA, they're just not worth it.

Besides, you can always do what we did at FedEx, bide your time, wait and take over their damn union.

Interestingly, in this case, age 65 bought the East guys 5 more years to keep a majority.

Something to think about. At United in 1989, the "570" were put in front of the scabs and non-scab "539" on the senority list after being junior to them since 1985. I believe there were 3 separate lawsuits to stop this but they were unsuccsessful as the "new" list still stands today. IOW, the seniority list was changed by the union as part of a cba. Could the majority East guys at USAPA change the Nic award as part of a new cba? This is not flamebait and I have no dog in this hunt. Just my 2 cents.

I believe in the case of the "570"...It was a date of hire correction. Not just an arbitrary change to the seniority list.

You are correct sir. The 570 were hired before any of the scabs and 539. But, were not the East guys hired before the West guys? I mean in most cases. I happen to believe in the Nic award, furloughed is furloughed no matter when you were hired. But, there are parallels in that the East furloughed guys that got stabled were hired before the Westies.

Yes, the 570 case is not applicable to the Nicolau award as a precedent for overturning the award. That is per the lawyers.

We will see on the applicability of agency fees to our situation. We will do what our lawyers suggest. We are not stupid and unlike the East we have no intentions of burning our bridges, we just won't participate in USAPA.

I will not comment on the inanity of some posters who believe AWA was doomed to fail. At the time of the merger we were doing very well and we were in no danger of doing anything other than grow and upgrade our people. We had firm deliveries that had routes set in place for them to fly. We have competed head to head with SWA for years because we really complemented each other, we did not really go head to head. We had the long haul market out of PHX and LAS with some short haul stuff because that's what the market would bear. SWA also had some long haul flights out of PHX but again, those were either niche markets or there was a demand for capacity. By having SWA in place PHX became a fortress hub against any other hub and spoke carriers coming in.

Now we have the East and our costs have gone up a lot more than the revenue has kept pace. We are in a worse position because we have a high cost market back East, an aging, surly workforce that will not make the changes needed to compete today, and a management that just wants their golden parachute to inflate one more time. We have only one shot out of this and that is to either split the operation and sell off in pieces or merge with another airline to dilute the pollution that has crept out from the East.

Well, rumor has it that the merge you seek may in fact happen...UAL has tried to merge with both AmWest and AAA. Now, they can do both at the same time!!!!!!!!! Either that or CAL. Time will tell.