Couple of questions regarding the USAir USAPA thing:

1) ALPA is losing 5,000 + pilots (I believe) paying around 1.95% (I believe). What economic impact will this have to ALPA as a whole? How much money is this in dollar terms, and what percentage of ALPA's revenues are derived from USAir? Will ALPA's loss of revenue lead to a decline in services to ALPA members at other airlines?

2) West pilots (I think around 1,700) will probably not join. What protections do they have (gievances, job actions by company, etc)?

3) Is it better for a West pilot to join USAPA for whatever services they can provide, or be uncovered?

4) What happens to any of the ongoing job actions, grievances, etc that ALPA was in the middle of on behalf of USAir pilots now that USAPA has won? Will ALPA finish these, or does USAPA take over immediately? If a West guy, who voted for ALPA was fighting a job action or grievance right now, would he need to join USAPA immediately to continue to recieve support, or is he just screwed?

Sorry for the questions - everybody is arguing the bigger issues, but the devil is in the details. I am interested in knowing how this will all work.

 

5000 pilots making about 100k average each = about 10,000,000 dues income to ALPA. That's gonna hurt.

USAir is a close shop, (I'm told) so the West guys will pay a fee equal or nearly equal to the dues or could be subject to termination. (that should be interesting)

All pilots regardless of union affiliation should be subject to all parts of the contract and support from the bargaining representative if needed. The only exception is new hires on probation. They benefit from all parts of the contract except the termination part of the grievance process. (At Alaska anyway)

 

1. I heard around 9 million. 1.95% is correct. I dont think there will be any reductions in service at ALPA, at least in the near term.

2. If they dont join they will not have any union protection. They can pay just the min fee, that will give them protections but not allow a vote.

3. I think it would.

4. USAPA will take over the grievances in progress. Officially the pilot in your question would need to join for union services. However I think USAPA would just help this pilot, if he wanted it anyway. I dont think they would do the same for any new grievances. (that was just my opinion)

 

A better question: What do the new union leaders intend to accomplish by decertifying ALPA?

Both parties are still obligated to abide by the terms of their current contracts until ammended.

Decertification does not void the Nicholau award.

Do the East pilots intend to negotiate a new CBA along with a newly negotiated seniority list?

Just questions. I know ALPA saved my career when I was unjustly fired by a hostile airline mgt. Were it not for the Association's considerable financial and legal resources, I would not be where I am today. Does the USAPA have the financial and legal resources to go to Federal court to enforce an arbitration award when your mgt. ignores the arbitration award? Do they have the resources to deal with the FAA if you lose your medical due to a health related issue (read: ALPA Aeromedical)?

The point is, there is more to running a union than simply negotiating pay raises and seniority lists. I hope these guys (USAPA) know what they are doing. It can get mighty cold on the outside.

Best of luck. Hope it works out.

 

From what we have been told in the east, there was a total dues revenue of 11 million being paid to ALPA from the East side only. I can imagine about half of that going from the West. So figure that is a loss of 16.5 million to ALPA.

One thing I have learned in business outside of the aviation world is that, it is far cheaper to take care of your clients than it is to drop the ball and lose those clients and thus have to find new clients.

 

The East believe that the Nic award is ALPA Vs. ALPA and is therefore moot. The West does not believe that. The courts will decide. Also, they will continue under status quo until a new contract is negotiated.

 

A little off the thread's subject, but in line with ALPA's possible financial challenges.

The former TWA pilots are currently in litigation with ALPA for duty of fair representation. This lawsuit is currently in progress.

No further comment.

FF

 

Who is going to pay for the legal fees that will rack up over the next decade or two of litigation? And after those are paid, who pays for the rest of the union business (it costs money, lots of it)? The members through special assesments? Does the USAPA get to asses wages of the West pilots to litigate with the East pilots? Or, visa-versa?

I honestly don't know. Nothing like this has ever really happened before (at least on this scale). I do not envy the position these guys are now in. I'm sure Parker is grinning from ear to ear right now.

 

Here is another question. What if things on the east side go further south. Another words, can't change the arbitrators ruling, etc. Then they, all 2700 east pilots, walk off the job. Wouldn't that put the whole airline under including the west side.

 

Dues money that used to go to ALPA will now go to usapa. Numbers range from 9 to 16 million per year used to go to ALPA. Also USAPA can asses the pilots if necessary. I don't think ALPA will even be involved. They are no longer part of the equation. That's one of the points USAPA guys are counting on.