Originally Posted by kronan

You Go Saab
Yeah, some of them are Proactive using young women (sure can't call them "girls")

Originally Posted by saab2000

This issue will never be addressed at a national level as long as there are posts like the initial one referring to RJ pilots as 'pimply faced boys'. Get off your high horse!! Just because your airplane is larger than 50 seats doesn't make anything about you better a pilot or person or voter at ALPA. The RJ pilots didn't cause the problem. It was the pilots who conceded (concession, huh?) to management with regards to scope who allowed the problem to start. Everyone was looking out for themselves because they knew that down the road it would not affect them. How many widebody pilots were going to be affected by the 50 seaters? Not many. So why not vote for it?

With an attitude like the first poster shows, it becomes more obvious than ever that the RJ pilots really ought to think twice about supporting ALPA or our colleagues at the majors. We clearly are looked at with nothing but contempt by guys who fly larger airplanes and why should my dues go to their cause? Anyway, how did the more senior guys who fly the larger planes get their jobs? Did none of them have to work their way up? Were none of them young, pimply faced boys at one time? Get over yourself.

BTW, this type of division and infighting is EXACTLY what the companies want. My point about a separate organisation for the so-called 'Regionals' is not really serious, but the airlines would like nothing better because it would only strengthen their position.

Let's cut the crap on the RJ vs Mainline BS. If the guys at the majors see us as a threat then help us out by going after scope in contract negotiations. Do you guys really think that I want to fly a 'Guppy Killer' the rest of my life? But I guess it's easier to whine about us than it is to fight against scope. Why? Because the guys in the Guppy will never fly the RJ if it were brought into the same seniority list.

Everyone for themselves, as I said before.

Originally Posted by SaltyDog

Todays an example is pay for training. Unions should contractually forbid any PFT
on the property. Takes leadership to get these things in a contract to protect the new folks to the business. What we all do is call folks coming in off the roullete wheel is nasty names and blame them for the state of the poor pilot situation. How backwards! Captains, etc need to mentor and fix these issues. Takes sacrifice though, that is where we become our own worst enemies (and ripe for management exploitation)
I got lucky, but want others to get 'lucky' too. Heck, we airline pilots should band together and do a hostile buy out of Mesa since it is so cheap. Start a new model.

Originally Posted by dojetdriver

Actually, you're a little behind the times. The amount of companies that are pay for training now pails in comparison to the 90's and first part of this century, when it was more the norm. By the end of 2001 it was gone at most of the carriers that charged. ACA, ASA, Express1(PCL), Bizex, JetStream Int'l (PSA), Chautauqua, Continental Express, WestAir (I believe), etc. The companies that have pay per view now are in the minority. To tell you the truth, I'm surprised it didn't rear it's ugly head again with the state of the industry.

PFT is by far the NOT the biggest issue that "regionals" face now days. But yeah, it should be forbidden. Do you think that SW should forbid their form of "PFT"?

The biggest issue now at the "regional" level is the whipsaw and legacy management playing the "regional" carriers off against one another for cost. It results in substandard contracts because the legacy wants the cost down, therefore killing the codeshare "regional" pilots groups ability to fight for better/more expensive CBA's.

Originally Posted by AAflyer

There are more than you think....

Just a little tacky, although the last flight bag with a logo from apple computers to In and Out Burger (and everything in between) looked like something a 5 year old would have.


AA

Originally Posted by SKMarz

United pilots beef with ALPA really isn't about the RJ pilots themselves but the fact that ALPA allowed management to hand over our jobs to the RJs. Not the RJ pilots fault, not by a long shot.

Bottom line, I really can't come up with anything that ALPA has done in recent years to protect United pilots but I have seen plenty of things that have thrown us under the bus. Age 65 being one of the foremost. As for voting with your feet, easier said than done. US Airways mostly stepped out due to the divisive nature of the pilot group.

I think we at United suffer from learned helplessness. We have been beaten down for so long we have not just forgotten how to fight but don't even realize we can fight. I'm not claiming to have any answers but I hate to see pilots becoming pitted against each other, it does not do anything good for us in the long run except distract us from the important issues.

Originally Posted by HercDriver130

BINGO.... you win the prize SAAB