Linebacker35

I was just wondering did the NTSB not conclude after the AA1420 crash in little rock that the pressure airlines faced to maintain on-time preformance and avoid delays was dangerous and had been a factor in the crash? They mentioned this on the discovery chanel show Mayday. Ive been trying to find a report saying this, if anyone knows of one I would appreciate the link! I plan to send it to my member of parliament to protest the new air passenger bill of rights they voted in this week for Canada. Amoung other things it will force airlines to pay each passenger $500 per hour the flight is delayed for any reason, even weather or other safety issues
This will also apply to US airlines operating flights into canada.... so this is bad for everyone!

Lighteningspeed

I don't have the link but you can go to the NTSB website directly and get the report. NTSB.gov

bubi352

In Europe, if the flight is delayed or canceled you will be compensated (at least this is my understanding). My in laws went to Austria without any glitch. Coming back their flight was canceled on an Air France flight. They were put in an hotel for the next flight the following day and received 1000$ cash on top of that. I believe this became a law in the European Union not too long ago.

7576FO

The Little Rock crash should not be attributed to OnTime as a cause. It should and properly did go down as "Mission Hacker" The CA had personal reasons to continue.
1. Ego, "I've never crashed yet"
2. "I'm a chief pilot, I'm the best, I can do this"
3."I've got a new FO, I'll show him how to do this"
4."I've got to get to the hotel, i've got things to do"
Sorry to be flippant, but that is what happened.

Even after that at AA I was flying into DFW with a check airman. Wind at DFW was 310 @48 Gust to 56. One runway ops. I was checking wx at everywhere and figuring out where we'd go. The check airman told me "Even if it's over 50 knots we'll still land."
It was 46 when he touched down.
I was too diplomatic with this idiot. I was too nice and gentle. I should have raised a major Hissy-Fit. The wind was above 50 till we were on a 5 mile final.


At AA there is no CRM. The books are all written "The CA will"
At AA Only the CA gets the paperwork.

Never at AA has any CA ever asked me "7576FO did you have time to review the paperwork before we push back?"
I try to review the paperwork but there is not always time. I have found many mistakes. I wonder what one's i've missed.
ALL FO's Globally need to stand up. "Stop! I am not ready. You are rushing! This is an unsafe operation!" That is easy to write, but generally we try to "get along" too much in the cockpit.
I was a CA at a regional for 9 years before American. Yet I still find myself trying to get along, to make the best out of bad situations. Daily I find myself repeating things 3 times. "You are almost at 1,000' and You Do Not have flaps at 30! I am too diplomatic.
I am trying to be honest here and helpful in that we all have room for improvement. I sure do.

Last time I JS'd on SWA both pilots had a copy of the dispatch release for their review.

bubi352

Very good insight. I am wondering if any other AA CA or FO can comment further on that.

EF77

Yet another reason never to fly on AA.

acl65pilot

Well that is not the case at every major. Here at DAL the FO actually the PM WILL review the flight plan and check it against what is in the FMC. 99.999999% of the time sits on the center pedestal for both of us to look at.

I say there needs to be a change in direction at AMR if this is the case. That is so 1980's

7576FO

Here at DAL the FO actually the PM WILL review the flight plan and check it against what is in the FMC. 99.999999% of the time sits on the center pedestal for both of us to look at.

Same here at AA. Once the CA shows up with the paperwork, we both check the filed and PDC against what is in the FMC. We'll go over the flight plan and the #'s., but I must make a big effort to get my hands on the notams and the wx package. Last summer, right before main door closing I remembered seeing a note on the flight plan. I looked again to see what it was, and found the paperwork was for a different N number aircraft (not the one we were in). But has anyone ever asked you if you had time to review the paperwork before you pushed back?
I do have the capability to get and print out the paperwork for each flight at AA. My FO duties do not really afford me the time to do this.
I will pass this on to our safety committee, but again around here at AA unless your name begins with CA John Smith you will not get any idea very far.
If a few people read this and can get past the point that i've been an FO too long, hopefully they will see the point here is "Have you had time to review ALL the paperwork before we push?"
In my mind it is a team effort.

ImEbee

I may be mistaken but aren't many European airlines subsidized in some manner by their governments/EU? I find it hard to believe this will happen for US carriers unless that is the case.

captjns

Per EU 261 legislation if a flight is cancelled or diverted due to safety concerns and an explanation from the flight crew and operations, along with supporting documents which warrent such diversion and or cancellation then penalties due passengers may be waived. However it is the responsibility of the carrier to appeal the EU’s decision regarding any monies due the passengers. The appeal system may take some time to vindicate the carrier.



There are a number of carriers in Europe that have never been, or are no longer subsidised by their governments as in the past.