Question;

On a three crewmember aircraft, why do carriers like Focus and Kalitta have an SO? What exactly is that?

SO's
 

The idea at Focus is to take young kids who barely have a CFI and throw them in the FE seat for a couple of years paying next to nothing and then upgrade them to the right seat. The difference between an SO and a PFE is an A&P license that PFE's have and SO's do not have and that the SO is sooner or later going to transition to the right seat. They have I believe 12 "cadets" at Focus for this type of training. But they are having a real problem with the FAA because the Fed's don't believe the 747 is a good platform to start an aviation carreer on.
I agree with the Fed's however I know in Japan they have been training pilots from CFI with 250 hours to right seat 747 for over 20 years. But in Japan they always used PFE's. And training is much more intense.
Major carriers have used the "SO" for years on three men acft.

Cargo 360's has 12 PFE's. Eight from Korean Air. Four over 60 guys with lots of experience. Everyone hired into the company now is as a SO. There are no "Cadet Pilots" at Cargo 360. To answer the question a Second Officer is just an FE who will upgrade to First Officer and then Captain.

Two questions:

A. Is the min guarantee based on a 28 day bid period for a total of 13 bid pds. or a calendar month?

B. Are they doing any hiring to the right seat or only engineer?

Thanks

An FE is much more desireable in a classic 74.

Here's another....

When they deadhead you for flights, is it in business or coach? Inchon's a long way in coach.

Thanks

More info and answers
 

Hopefully this will cover the questions from what I know...

1. According to my offer, bid is by month, 60hrs guaranteed with a target of 80 hours. During my interview they had said at the moment anyone who wanted to could easily get scheduled for 100 hrs/month

2. I was hired as a SO but I'm coming straight out of the military. SO/FO pay is the same, so read into that what you will.

3. Deadheading...I don't remember specifically, but I think it's business. Nevertheless, since it is a purchased ticked I think you'll be maxed out on miles and able to upgrade soon.

4. "Appropriate Military Time". My impression is with their military background, they know roughly how many hours you should be flying in a tour and are looking for solid experience and progression rather than a hard number. Here's what I brought to the game (and I got hired), done over 12 years of flying in the Navy:
3300 total
1700 ME
1300 RW
1300 PIC (475 RW)
700 Actual Instrument
All turbine... at the moment I'm a Hawkeye (56k turboprop) aircraft commander, with 3 deployments in E-2's and 3 in SH-60B's - so I've flown overseas a bunch, and I have quite a bit of "blue water" time (no divert available other than the ship). I have not had a non-flying job (probably why my career has stalled), and I've qualified on 7 different aircraft, so I'm trainable and I think my flight experience is relevent to long-haul flying.
Like I said, I think they are just looking for the relevence of you experience and the your hours/time in match up. Unlike Fed Ex/SWA, they don't seem to mind the rotary wing time, but I've shown I can handle a hummer around the boat...

HTH
Spongebob

Forgot to add...
 

BTW, I'm also an ATP w/737 type rating.

HTH
Spongebob

Good thing they also let women deploy these days I guess! :eek:

ZING!!

lol

Why do you have that, Military?

Thanks a mill Sponge
 

Here's another:

Vacation? How many weeks? Accrual? Sick time?

Thanks again.

Answers
 

SG-
I got the ATP because I wanted to have it before I started interviewing..opens doors. At the same time, with the GI Bill, the government covers 60% of a type rating from approved schools. I went to Higher Power since they'll do both the 737 and the ATP on the same sim ride, and the end cost (to me) was about the same as going to All-ATP to get it done.

AV8or -
I don't remember specifically, but I recall it was "industry standard".

HTH
Spongebob

SpongeBob,
 

Just wondering on a few points about 360...I can't log onto their website from "here" (deployed).

How long from submitting resume to App to call for an interview to the actual job offer?

Do you know how much Medical would be for family coverage?

Was the interview more TMAT based?

Would you recommend HP for the type and ATP (did you look anywhere else...I'll be looking in Jan). Thanks for your time and what field are you going to go into?

Thanks again Sponge.

C212135,

They emailed me about 2 weeks after I applied on the website, I interviewed two weeks later (being AD I needed a week heads-up to work the flight schedule and get the time off). I finally got the offer 7 weeks after that, which I think was driven more by my release date than anything else - I interviewd on Sept 19th, and they were looking to fill an Oct 9th class (per my interview letter), but my AD release is in December. I was hired into a Jan 7th class.

The interview was very much a "get to know you" session. We went through my background, experience, a bunch of Navy jokes, sea stories and a couple TMAT that they are required to ask (BTW, #8 was pretty simple). They gave a great, interactive brief on the company and it's plans, since there is not much info on the street. Overall, they are looking to see if they want to spend long hours in a cockpit with you and since the company is still new, are you up for the responsibility of leading the company as it grows. Not a "normal" interview, and very similar to the non-flying ones I've done. Think more "management" than "pilot".

I don't know the actual $$ with the medical plans, but they use Blue Cross/Blue Shield of Washington.

For the type/ATP, I did HP based on recomendations from some buds. It was a great program, the Joe, Mark and the staff are AWESOME (they will try their best to fatten you up and keep you on a sugar induced high during the class portion), after finishing you are part of their "family" and the girls there are pro's when it comes to doing the VA paperwork for you. If you have the hours (I'm short since they don't count helo time), the incestuous relationship they have with SWA isn't a bad thing either (among other relationships, a good portion of the sim instructors teach at SWA too) and the SWA recruiting team comes to visit the class each week. The only drawback I can see is the sim they own is a -200, but I did mine on a -300 (more modern autopilot and FMS) that they leased time for. They work with military folks enough that they are familiar with deployments (and the constraints caused by them) and via email with attachments will set you up with a class date and ship you the reading material (you need 60hrs of pre-study) while you're deployed...I got mine on the ship just fine. About 1/2 my class of 18 was military. HP was the only placed I looked, but I've heard the school in Phoenix is OK, and I think there is one in Denver that guarantees an EFIS sim.

I'm going to work for a contractor in Pax River as a consultant. I'll be working on the E-2 HE2K and the E-2D programs, and may get to do some flying too if the cards fall in the right order. My starting pay is about 50% more than Cargo360, and I get to play with all the geeky new technology. Should be a blast.

HTH
Spongebob

SpongeBob,
 

Thanks for the info and I wish you the best of luck...Pax River is a nice test bed and I think it would be very interesting. I have a good friend that flys there. Did you submit a resume/cover letter to Cargo 360 or just apply online? Do you know if the HP price includes hotel? Also, do you pay the whole fee upfront or at the end of class w/VA and get reimbursed 60%?

C212135,

I just applied through their website, no resume or coverletter...

The price does not include hotel, meals or rental car. I stayed at the Comfort Suites in Grand Prairie, which was a couple blocks away before they moved. HP has a deal with them..total bill came to $730 for the two weeks. I also got a rental car so I could check out Dallas as I had never been there before, plus it makes getting to the sims and back easier...that came to another $650, somewhat offset by the boys buying me meals for shuttling them around, but if you live close enough, drive.

You pay up front and the VA reimburses you.

HTH
Spongebob

Thanks
 

SpongeBob, Thanks for taking the time to post some factual info on 360, they look like a decent place to carve out a living. My background is very similar to yours, hope I get a call from them.

Thanks Sabredriver et. al.
 

Thanks guys, I'm trying to fight the trend and keep the forums usefull.

I concur with your opinion...I'm not taking the job, but I was VERY impressed by them, hence the cheerleading. Seriously, they seem like a great home for the former military folks like me, more so than the regionals I interviewed with.

Good luck everyone, like I said before, GREAT opportunity!

Spongebob

Interview next week
 

I interview with them next weak. looking forward to it. Thanks again for the info Sponge. You made me pursue this just enough to get interviewed.

Dutch,

Good Luck! I think you'll be impressed, just remember it's a way, way different interview than the normal inquisition (or at least it was for me!).

Let us know how it goes,
Spongebob

Is Cargo 360 actually flying already? I looked on their website and most of the talk on there seemed to be future oriented. "SEA will be the crew base", Cargo 360 will operate 3 B747" , "Cargo 360 will serve Asia and North America" etc.. Nothing concrete that indicates that they are already actually doing something. They do have a section on the website called "schedule" but it is password protected and not viewable. Does anybody know?

I've seen their plane in ANC. They are flying Korean Air cargo from what I understand.

Great info, Sponge. As a native Northwesterner, and a Navy career flying Intruders and Prowlers at Whidbey, sticking around the PNW would be great. And 360 sounds like a serious possibility. I'll have to get off my a$$ and start the process...

Thanks!
 

Mink,

PM me if you need any gouge...my last airwing had a good collection of info on the process that worked pretty well.

More than happy to help and encourage...and make sure you guys mention me when you interview! :D I'd like to keep on their good side just in case....

Spongebob

Damn boy! Did it ever occur to you the information on the website may be a little old? Also, maybe read a little more before the post?

Mink,

If you know PJ at Whidbey, talk to him. I've been in contact with him about 360.

Old A-6 guy

OK after a bit more reasearch, it is evident that they are indeed flying. Thanks

Interview
 

Dutch, did you know someone there or was it just the on-line app and they called? might be worth filling out.

Sabre,

I just did the online app and got an email.

HTH
Spongebob

I did the online app about 11 months ago. Kept it updated. I was surprised they called because 10 months had gone by and nothing. Suddenly in October, I had quit my job and (after reading what spongebob said about them) decided to update my online information for Cargo 360 which showed I wasn't working for anyone. A week later, they called me. Next class is Jan. 8th. They start interviewing for that class next week.

I honestly don't have any idea of you can get your foot in the door! Their website says "prospects who call us will be eliminated from future interviews"; I asked them about this! They said because of their staffing levels, they don't want anyone calling them. So, bottom line: I don't know. As for why they called me, I guess its because I have been flying they whale for 6 years now. Sorry I haven't helped much.

If you want to my advice? I'd say, take the gloves off and call them. If you have had your information posted with them for quite a while and can talk the talk, what do you have to loose? :o

Thanks for the update!

Pm
 

SB Thanks for the info, I'll keep you posted SD

How did your interview go? Did you hear anything yet?

360 Interview....
 

Yes I did. I'm just going to add to previous post and try not to repeat what Spongebob has said because everything he said was true.

The Good:

1. Crew ratio of 7 to 1 - This means you will flying instead of sitting in hotels. So if your like me and would rather work than play, you will definately work there.
2. They have signed a lease on two 744's that they will take delivery of early 2008.
3. The three acft they have right now are all averaging about 400 hours a month. This means they are flying their asses off and making money.
4. 2 747-200's and one 747-300's all came off the assembly line around the same time so they are the same (no differences training except the subtle differences of the -300)
5. $67.50 FO/FE pay, $110 Capt pay 60 hr guarantee (This is in the upper middle area of what other 747 ACMI outfits pay).
6. $2000 a month while in training (This is double what other ACMI outfits pay)
6. Blue Cross/Blue Shield Primera PPO with no clause for pre-existing conditions
7. A very productive and long term lucritive ACMI agreement with Korean Air.
8. 6 days paid annual vacation and 12 days paid sick leave a year. All paid back at the end of the year if not used.

The bad:

1. Two year training contract $16,000. They have you write two checks that they will not cash for $8,000 a peice unless you leave or get fired.
2. Seattle based so whenever you have to go to Seattle it's on your dime. This includes INDOC training which is one week.
3. No pay raises! They want to start a profit sharing program in 2008. Maybe it will happen, maybe not. No Guarantees.
4. Per diem: 1 dollar an hour while in training and $2 an hour while on the line. Only paid when you are not flying! If you have ever spent time in Incheon, you will soon discover this will hardly cover any expenses while there.
5. No bid lines! So you really don't know from month to month when your going to be working. I don't know what happens if you get extended into your days that you are suppose to be home other than I believe no extra pay.
6. Health Insurance starts in your third month and as Sponge said you have to get a Seattle address for this.... So does that mean all my Health Benefits info is mailed to the Seattle address? What of my PCP? Does it have to be in Washington also? I couldn't get answers on this or what my premium would be.
7. The 744's are a lease
8. No accruel of sick leave or Vacation
9. All there acft are Pratt powered "R" model engines (Fuel guzzling old engines, hard to start in high ambient conditions and hard to get parts for)

Thats all I can think of right now. They only fly Incheon to Ancorage (Tech Stop) than either LA, Chicago, New York, or Atlanta.

I think they are a solid company with good management (All of Company management have many years of aviation experience - most came from Delta so they are new to ACMI Cargo but from an employee point of view this won't matter much).

The two year training contract is the big stickler for me. This means they can abuse the **** out of me for two years. Based on the fact there are no guarantees of pay increases after the first or second year, my impression is they will probably abuse the employee for the first two years.

Everything written here is subject to change because they kept re-iterating to me that this is "Currently" what we are offering.

The interview was very easy, they did most of the talking, I just sat and listened. They gave me a couple of scenarios and asked what i would do... All common sense stuff.

I don't know if I got hired. They are waiting to interview everyone before they make any hiring decisions. I believe I did very well in the interview. We had a good rapport.

Dutch,

Happy to know I wasn't putting out bad gouge :D

Good luck...I never got a call or email, just a FedEx package that showed up one day when I was hired.

Spongebob

Great feedback, Dutch. Be interesting to see if the "bads" change for the better over time...

You'd like those R engines if you spent a lot of time flying A's and J's.

Your right. How about those "Q"s too. I guess it could be worse. But than, it could always be worse.