How much are they paying to fly the "black helo's"?

Now that a few months have gone by since the last post.......

Any further info on the items being "worked on" stated above? Pay rates past first year? Per diem for total TAFB instead of just in hotel? Contract/union? CASS?

Also, I see a few folks above claiming 15-17 days off or so (if I remember correctly) - what type of block schedule can you do? i.e. 7 on, 7off? 14 on 16 off?

Thanks in advance........Moose.

Oh, and are they looking into any other customers besides Korean? Pretty shaky to leave all your eggs in one basket.

Moose,

Give it a break.

If you were a new startup, where would you fly just three A/C - somewhere other than a profitable 5 year contract with KAL?

If you're looking for a contract and union as a job qualifier, don't even look at the third level ACMI carriers for a job. Go for the majors. Look what the unions have done there - ask Polar and Atlas; ask Delta about their retirement and 50% pay cuts; ask AA about their paycuts and their managers bonus, on and on.

I was a union member at a major for 25 years, but I don't advise you to pursue ACMI airlines if union/contract is a concern for you - you'll just give yourself (and your fellow crewmembers) a miserable time.

If you're in the C-17 at McChord, ask around - a couple of guys there fly for Cargo 360. They'll tell you all about it.

if you want company stability you could try kalitta, they have a huge amc and postal contract. chief pilot is a retired f4 and kc10 driver. as for QOL you can research that for yourself. but it sounds like you probably have the credentials for ups/fdx or whatever

Whats the Chief Pilots at Kalitta's name? I might know him. If I do, would like to give him a call.

Bump...any new hiring news?

ask AA about their paycuts and their managers bonus, on and on.

And ask them how well they treated the 24,000 TWA employees they acquired along with their routes, airframes and profitable share in Worldspan. The 1400 TWA-ers that remain after the slaughter will more than give you an earful about how well their fellow NAAtive employees treated them during seniority list integration.

11/10/95 hire at TWA. Furloughed since 7/2/2003.

Don't know about hiring, but everyone that I've talked to at C360 says they like it and the airfames are in very good shape.

FF

New Hire
 

Can't wait to start on the 23rd!

Any word on a possible merger/take over?

Oak Hill Capital Partners to Acquire Southern Air

Southern Air to be Combined with Cargo 360 to Create a Leading Global Air
Cargo Company

NEW YORK, July 26 /PRNewswire/ -- Oak Hill Capital Partners, a leading
private equity firm, announced today that it has executed a definitive
agreement to acquire Southern Air Inc., a premier provider of air cargo
services to airlines worldwide. Subsequent to the closing of the
transaction, Southern Air will be combined with Cargo 360, Inc., an
existing Oak Hill Capital portfolio company. Southern Air's founder and
CEO, James K. Neff, and his family will retain a significant minority
interest in the combined company, and Mr. Neff will serve as its CEO. Terms
of the transaction were not disclosed.

The combined business, which will operate under the Southern Air
Holdings, Inc. name, will be one of the largest and fastest growing global
air cargo companies providing aircraft, crew, maintenance and insurance
("ACMI") services to airline customers worldwide. On a combined basis,
Southern Air Holdings will operate a fleet of 13 Boeing 747 "classic"
freighters. In addition, Southern Air Holdings has reached agreement to add
another Boeing 747 "classic" freighter and two Boeing 747-400BCF freighters
to its fleet in 2008, and anticipates operating six new Boeing 777
freighters in the future. Southern Air Holdings will be headquartered in
Norwalk, Connecticut, with flight and maintenance bases located around the
world.

Mr. Neff said, "We are very excited to partner with Oak Hill Capital to
create the leading low cost, global provider of ACMI cargo services. The
combination of Southern Air and Cargo 360 will result in significant cost
savings and synergies which will enhance our service offering to current
and future customers. In addition, Oak Hill Capital's experience in, and
commitment to, the broader aerospace industry will provide us additional
resources to grow our business."

Rowan Taylor, a Partner at Oak Hill Capital Partners, added, "Southern
Air and Cargo 360 each share a common vision for successfully serving their
global airline customers, and the combined business will have the resources
to continue this service and to grow. We look forward to working with Jim
and his outstanding management team."

The transaction is expected to close in September 2007.

Oak Hill Capital Partners was advised by CIBC World Markets Corp. and
Weil, Gotshal & Manges LLP. Southern Air was advised by Bear, Stearns &
Co., Inc. and Kramer Levin Naftalis & Frankel LLP.

About Oak Hill Capital Partners

Oak Hill Capital Partners is a private equity firm with more than $4.6
billion of committed capital from leading entrepreneurs, endowments,
foundations, corporations, pension funds and global financial institutions.
Robert M. Bass is a lead investor. During a period of over 20 years, the
professionals at Oak Hill Capital Partners have invested in more than 60
significant private equity transactions. Oak Hill Capital Partners is one
of several separate Oak Hill partnerships, each of which has a dedicated
and independent management team. These Oak Hill partnerships comprise
more than $25 billion of investment capital across multiple asset classes,
including private equity, special situations, high yield and bank debt,
venture capital, real assets, public equity and hedge funds. In addition to
Cargo 360, the Oak Hill partnerships' current aerospace investments include
(i) Primus International, Inc., a leading global Tier II supplier of
structural components, kits and assemblies, (ii) OH Aircraft Acquisition,
LLC, a newly- formed aircraft leasing company that has executed a
definitive agreement with The Boeing Company to acquire six Boeing 777
freighter aircraft, and (iii) a portfolio of aircraft on lease to airlines
around the world.


SOURCE Oak Hill Capital Partners

So, the obvious question is: What does this mean for the pilots?

If they will all be under the Southern banner, I'm thinking it's not too good for the Seattle based C360 bubbas...

I think it clearly states that we will be flying under SA colors. As far as the Seattle based crews, no effect since its home basing. But the management toads and local hires that work at the Seattle HQ.....

This depends on whose work rules are adopted. If Southerns scheduling policy is followed the 360 guys maybe in for a surprise. I left to go elsewhere after being on the line for only 6 months. Maybe I left prematurely but only time will tell.

I doubt you're wrong... I would expect Southern's work rules and mx policies to be followed, at least initially, as the release said the HQ will stay in Conn. That means the same schedulers and scheduling management, especially with Jim Neff staying in charge. But, who knows, I may be wrong, again. I expected them to run the companies separately and play the Atlas/Polar game with them...

Who knows, maybe we both bailed too soon... (I left after 2 years because scheduling got so bad...) Either way, with all my friends still there, I'm hoping for a good outcome.

Likewise, I wish them the best, a lot of good guys there that's for sure. It was nice working with you over there, maybe our paths will cross again someday!
Have fun with your new position. For now I'm enjoying my time off.

Curiouser and curiouser, says Alice.
 

Is there any incentive to stay for the C360 people? Any news on bridging training and operations? It sounds as if there is to be a consolidation under the SA program. Crews may intermix sooner or later. That means common operations and manuals. Who goes to the school house?

What about the SOs vs the PFEs? Are there Korean flight crew? What about them?

There are a lot of questions and somebody is going to feel shorted, no matter what answer is given.

I wish all to have patience and develop a sense of humor. I doubt any of the crew members look upon this with great happiness.:(

when did Cargo 360 start ops? THX

Oak Hill investment which owns cargo 360 just bought Southern Air Inc . Combined companies will operate 14 747's classic, 2 747-400, and in the future may have 6 777F

Certified and flying in the beginning of May, 2006

That's a good point that everyone needs to remember. Even though it's Southern Management and name, it is not SA buying Cargo 360. It is Oak Hill buying SA who happens to own Cargo 360. Not trying to ruffle any feathers here.

I just saw this way back on page 15. I guess it's time to move this thread to the other forum.

Any update on this thread? I heard new classes are having no shows due to the turmoil. Can anyone validate?

C360 just finished one Indoc class. One person left, the other eight are still on. As far as news goes, all is quiet on the western front.

new hire
 

2 people left. The rest of us (8) are waiting to see what is going to come out of this merger. If things don't change at Southern I don't think many from this class will be sticking around. Hopefully, we can take the best from both sides and make a good contract.

This whole merger thing sounds like Oak Hill investers are trying to control the routes in Korea then chop the company up and make a whole bunch of money off it. I don't think they are seriously interested in developing a good airline. If they did then they would of put Cargo360's management team in charge. With a 97% realibilty rate and a management team with years of airline experience it only made sense.

My 2 cents

Doomer
 

Thanks for making me doubt my job security even more intensely than the usual background noise.

From the Southern perspective the C360 pilots/SO's/FE's seem to be getting an good incentive to remain onboard.

Contrary to your post, we have heard some early positive news regarding longterm commitment to continued growth and fleet development.

Overall, the combined pilot group needs to focus on collaborative efforts to negotiate creative solutions improving job satisfaction and retention. Too quickly people are moving to a win-lose mindset of resource scarcity and inability to achieve career goals here. I don't think that is the case so far.

I feel it is necessary at this point for an outline of longterm goals and statement of purpose by management. This would establish some rumor control and inform affected parties on how our futures may transform. (that info. may come in Sep. when the final deal is signed)

Overall, I think changes in the near future will be minimal. Nonetheless, our SACG is requires constructive input from its members in preparation to address our most immediate concerns; seniority, bidding&schedule, upgrades etc. We would all benefit from some information sharing from both sides of the pilot group to advance both our interests and knowledge.

Doomer
 

Thanks for making me doubt my job security even more intensely than the usual background noise.

From the Southern perspective the C360 pilots/SO's/FE's seem to be getting a good incentive to remain onboard.

Contrary to your post, we have heard some early positive news regarding longterm commitment to continued growth and fleet development.

Overall, the combined pilot group needs to focus on collaborative efforts to negotiate creative solutions improving job satisfaction and retention. Too quickly people are moving to a win-lose mindset of resource scarcity and inability to achieve career goals here. I don't think that is the case so far.

I feel it is necessary at this point for an outline of longterm goals and statement of purpose by management. This would establish some rumor control and inform affected parties on how our futures may transform. (that info. may come in Sep. when the final deal is signed)

Overall, I think changes in the near future will be minimal. Nonetheless, our SACG is requires constructive input from its members in preparation to address our most immediate concerns; seniority, bidding&schedule, upgrades etc. We would all benefit from some information sharing from both sides of the pilot group to advance our combined interests and knowledge.

Sorry
 

Sorry for talking about an option that is very REAL. I think it would be un wise to make a decision before considering all the information. That is why I mentioned a possible outcome of the merger. This is the career field we both joined and we knew what we were getting into.
I agree with you. Both groups need to tackle issues that are concerning, so when this merger happens we make it so profittable they would regret dismantling the company. I also think these issues need to be addresses prior to the merger. Fly safe

So long as Oak Hill runs the two companies seperately, you are correct, there will be nothing but "status quo" but then that is not what is proposed by Oak Hill.

The crucial point of the integration will be the merger of the two seniority lists, thence follow the contract for bidding and schedule, upgrades etc...

The only way to "advance our combined interests" would be to open the contract for amendment. And what are the chances of Neff negotiating a new contract with a new 200+ member crew force when he doesn't have to? IMHO, zero:rolleyes: Unless Oak Hill makes him :eek:

Tick Tock, Tick Tock.........
 

Time goes by. So, will the -400 be crewed by pilots from off the street and equal representation from each company? Will the excitement be at NATCO or United? Whose pay scale will be used?

:confused::eek::confused:

IMHO, Neither......

Where do the mechanics go to get qualified on the -400?
 

Shouldn't the mechanics be heading off to school soon, if the 400s are coming? Any trips to MSP or DEN in the mill? Any idea where the birds will be coming from and who is doing the conversion?

If I had as many answers as I do questions, I might be a par golfer!!!!:D

The mechanics should already be trained by now, unless it is being contracted out. Do the mechanics have a union? Is there a contract with a scope clause? :eek: Or are the -400s not coming to SAI? First aircraft is scheduled to be on the property in <4 months and the first person has yet to be trained, in fact, I'll bet the training program has yet to be approved by the FAA.

The -400s came from Maylaysia, actually pretty nice airplanes, BCF conversion being done in China, first one is supposed to be flown to China for mod this month if my memory serves me correctly. Second one in 4-5 months. Mod takes <120 days, and it should be revenue readay within a few days after mod. Toughest hurdle is getting the FAA to add it to your cert. The trainwreck, she's a comming, we just don't know the exact location to send the paramedics & coroner to yet.

History tells me that on any given day I can make par on most any hole on most any course, I just wish I could do it more than once per round. :D

Cards!?!
 

How about some liars poker? I have a pair of threes. What do you have?

Okay, any updates? I may be having breakfast in ANC in a week, so I need some stuff to wind up some people.:eek:


Remember its not the fall that kills you, but the jealous husband with the double barrel shotgun!

In MSP for training, the instructors have stated that SAH has been given a cost for training the 400 crews and have (Alteon) received no response from SAH's management. I think WOA is shopping for the 2 400's that may or may not go to SAH, this from the initial 400 WOA pilots in training in MSP.

Who is WOA?

Abcdef....
 

WOA is World and SAH is Southern/Cargo360's Daddy.:D

World Airways ......

My God----this thread has 20 pages and it's only talking about a start-up with a couple jets!!!

That's what happens when the startup is a great company and the employee's care about it