The moment someone questions union judgement then they just don't know what they are talking about. Thanks for the wonderful welcome... pilots so bitter about the way managment treats them they start treating the new guys like sh*t. I'm trying to get in the pool of airline pilots too you know... and much of what I say is from the outside looking in (un-biased in many respects). It's no wonder why so many people avoid this field of work... marred by bitterness and vengence tactics.

From the outside looking in, it does not make sense to strike when an airline is already in financial trouble (so much so that it could lead to chaper 7 if it loses too much money in an instance). As far as unions protecting pay scales... why is it that regional pilots make below poverty if striking helps the situation? I don't see how destroying the company when times are bad is going to put money in your pocket when times are good. All I'm saying is that if employees hung on until the airline was making money, then they would be in a better position to petition for pay raises without bankrupting the company. I think the airline industry is the only industry in America that has this sort of mentality.

Perhaps if someone questions the union's judgement in this industry then he must be a slave to management? I never gave any praise to management in any of my comments... but I do alude to the fact that they are the ones that ALWAYS end up smelling like roses after an airline goes under. A vast majority of the airlines are run by greedy bastards who float along on hypocracy (as you note, with the management taking bonuses as front line people take pay cuts).

The whole damn system is fu*ked up... the unions have too much power and pride (and create higher costs and inefficencies for the airlines)... and management tends to give the employees the shaft every chance they get.

Son, you are obviously new naiveand and don't yet work in the industry.

If it weren't for Unions you probably wouldn't want to become a Professional pilot because a UNION (i.e. ALPA) is what made the industry a career.

Just take some advice from an older fart who has been around the block more than a few times.

SIT back and watch and hopefully learn.

Good luck on your "Future Career"

No argument from me about this statement. :)

A couple of phrases come to mind- "You aren't paid what you deserve, you're paid what you negotiate". "When times are good, management can do NO wrong. When times are bad, the employees AREN'T doing enough". I seem to recall Mr. Grinsteins statement on pilot pay cuts before bankruptcy- "Do it once and do it right!!".

Imeneo, I originally responded by quoting you, and responding. That got a little long. So just in case I lose your attention .Let me start with this.

I realize that you are lacking this one bit of understanding about pilots, especially the pilots of Delta Airlines. Here it is: pilots only strike as a last resort, they strike when they would rather have no job than have the job under it's current conditions. Aspiring pilots like yourselves should step back and think about this, the professional pilots of Delta Airlines are rapidly approaching a point to where they would just as soon return to being ground bound as they would accept working in the job as it exists today. Does that tell you anything?

Imeno, I'm not trying to "get in the pool of airline pilots". I am "in the pool of airline pilots", and I can tell you that you should spend more time learning about the history of the profession. You wrote this:

How can you say that the pilots would rather "destroy a company and put themselves our of work rather than work for less"? The pilots at Delta are currently working for somewhere around one HALF of the wages they received six years ago. It is management demanding that they their compensation packages remain intact while stealing the pensions from the workers. It is management who is attempting to throw out the association contracts.


Regional pilots make below poverty because they accept poverty wages. That's pretty darn simple. It it my OPINION that they accept those wages because said wages are entry level wages. Entry level. Entry level, that phrase implies that there is somewhere higher to go. Pilots take regional jobs because they are trying to gain the credentials necessary for advancement. Those pilots don't strike, because they they still think that the potential for advancement exists, and they don't want to take a chance on screwing that up.

If unions have too much power, then why did Delta pilots take a big pay cut last year? Why did AA pilots take big cuts in 03 (IIRC)? Why do UAL pilots not make the same that they did in 2000? If unions have the power that you would seem to believe, then they could have prevented these wage cuts. Don't ya think?

BTW, you assert that unions create inefficiencies for airlines. Could you please provide details? Before you do so, maybe you could tell us all just exactly how you think a professional pilot should expect to be treated in these areas: duty time, rest time, days off, wages.

skybolt

Excellent Post SB

This has nothing to do with the current discussion, I have a four year degree and i am a CFI, My dream is to fly with the airlines someday. I have an incident on my record for admistering a forced landing, which the plane's landing gear and wing were damaged. My question is, is it worth spending more money and time on flight training to recieve my CFII. Because i have an incident on my record. Or will the airlines over look this?

Since you want it straight I'd reccommend pursuing another career. No way any carrier will even consider you with that on your record. Sorry.

Of course if you didn't receive a suspension for it will clear itself after 7 or so years I think.

You might want to start another thread though as you're right this has nothing to do with the current topic.

This doesn't apply directly to the DAL situation (It's regarding NWA instead), but it might help some of these younger folks understand the situation the industry faces right now.

Best of luck to all at DAL, NWA, Mesaba!

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Looking down from on high
 

I agree with just about everything you say............but,.... that legacy Delta arrogance shows through in your comments about regional pilots. Thinking that "feeder pilots" are second class (airmen) citizen's is a big part of how we, as a profession, got into the predicament were in today. Had DAL, CAL , UAL, AA and others integrated their regional pilots into their ranks, you wouldn't be looking at lower end flying leaving your seniority list, being bid out, whipsawing pilots to fly under your companies colors at ever decreasing pay and benefits (for there respective employees). While you guy's are in a though bind, and we all wish you best, your apparent apathy towards your regional brethren is short sighted and misguided. It will come to haunt you and possiblely all of us as welll. :(