Yeah, I have seen that. Hope they can raise enough money.

 

A couple of points if you please. I'm not Delta, and I don't think feeder pilots are second class. Apparently feeder pilots think that feeder pilots are second class. If you go back and re read my post, you'll find that I was giving my explanation for why regional pilots don't strike.
I agree that DALPA should have integrated it's lists when DAL acquired Comair and ASA.

As an aside, I'm a narrowbody Captain for a national carrier who was once a feeder pilot. The difference between a feeder pilot and myself is that I WILL leave the profession before I accept the wages/work rules being offered by feeder airlines. You see, I've been there, done that, got the company logo shirts, and I just don't need to fly for a living just to prove to someone/anyone that I'm something special. I can make enought money in other ventures to afford my own airplane, something that I can't do at feeder salaries. I.E. I could work outside of aviation & still enjoy aviation more than alot of starving, can't afford to have a family, driving a beater, living with their mother-in-law, feeder pilots.

That's not to say that they aren't as good of people as myself, it is only to say that they accept their wages. I wouldn't.

skybolt

 

Ok Skybolt made the appropriate adjustment.

 

I understand the last resort part... but what I don't understand is the strike-to-destroy mentality... it does not protect payscales in the long-run, it only dimishes them. If more airlines go under there will be more highly experienced pilots in the job hunting pool that will be competing fiercely for a few open positions. Common sense and economies of scale dictate that pilots in general are not going to be highly paid as a result.


I know many things about the history of the profession. And I know enough that airlines are not exempt from the rules of economics.

As I've said before when the airline proposes to tighten the proverbial belt... everyone top to bottom must feel the pinch.


agreed.

I stand corrected on the union power issue. As far as duty time goes... pilots should never be worked to the brink of fatigue.

Wages are always negotiable and should be adjusted in compliment with the financial health of the company, just like any other industry.

 

http://hosted.ap.org/dynamic/stories...N&SECTION=HOME

 

Apr 4, 12:24 PM EDT

Delta Pilots Vote to Authorize Strike

By HARRY R. WEBER
AP Business Writer

April 4, 12:24pm

Well, that link I posted above didn't work so here is the article from e-mail alert I got.
Best of luck to DAL Guys and Gals


ATLANTA (AP) -- Delta Air Lines Inc. pilots, angered by management's effort to throw out their contract and impose deep pay cuts, voted by a wide margin to authorize a strike, union leaders said Tuesday.

The 94.7 percent vote in favor of authorizing a strike gives union leaders the authority to set a strike date. They didn't set a date immediately and gave no indication when they might act.

The results were announced in a memo to pilots from the chairman of the union's executive committee, Lee Moak.

An arbitration panel must decide by April 15 whether to void the pilots contract. The union has said it will strike if its contract is rejected.

The nation's third largest carrier, which is operating under bankruptcy protection, has said a strike would put it out of business.

"The results of this ballot will send the strongest message yet that if Delta's senior executives are successful in their misguided attempt to reject our contract, we will strike," Moak wrote in his memo to pilots.

He added, "All too often over the past months, management has attempted to mischaracterize the defense of our contract as posturing, gamesmanship and, most recently, saber-rattling. They are wrong."

Company spokesman Bruce Hicks said the vote will not affect Delta service.

"Together with our pilots and all of our employees we remain focused on our No. 1 priority, which is taking good care of our customers," Hicks said.

He added that the company is committed to seeking a consensual deal with its pilots.

Atlanta-based Delta sought approval to reject its contract with its 5,930 pilots so it can impose up to $325 million in long-term pay and benefit cuts, which would include a wage reduction of at least 18 percent.

Delta's pilots previously agreed to $1 billion in annual concessions, including a 32.5 percent wage cut, in a five-year deal in 2004. But Delta, which has imposed pay cuts on other employees, said it needs more from its pilots after filing for bankruptcy protection in September.

So far, there has been little movement toward a long-term deal to replace an interim deal reached in December, though both sides have met at least twice since arbitration hearings in Washington ended March 23.

Of the 5,590 pilots who voted on the strike authorization ballot, 5,295 voted in favor, according to the union.

 

The moment someone questions union judgement then they just don't know what they are talking about. Thanks for the wonderful welcome... pilots so bitter about the way managment treats them they start treating the new guys like sh*t. I'm trying to get in the pool of airline pilots too you know... and much of what I say is from the outside looking in (un-biased in many respects). It's no wonder why so many people avoid this field of work... marred by bitterness and vengence tactics.

From the outside looking in, it does not make sense to strike when an airline is already in financial trouble (so much so that it could lead to chaper 7 if it loses too much money in an instance). As far as unions protecting pay scales... why is it that regional pilots make below poverty if striking helps the situation? I don't see how destroying the company when times are bad is going to put money in your pocket when times are good. All I'm saying is that if employees hung on until the airline was making money, then they would be in a better position to petition for pay raises without bankrupting the company. I think the airline industry is the only industry in America that has this sort of mentality.

Perhaps if someone questions the union's judgement in this industry then he must be a slave to management? I never gave any praise to management in any of my comments... but I do alude to the fact that they are the ones that ALWAYS end up smelling like roses after an airline goes under. A vast majority of the airlines are run by greedy bastards who float along on hypocracy (as you note, with the management taking bonuses as front line people take pay cuts).

The whole damn system is fu*ked up... the unions have too much power and pride (and create higher costs and inefficencies for the airlines)... and management tends to give the employees the shaft every chance they get.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Last edited by Imeneo : Yesterday at 10:05 AM.


When you make it to the big show there will be a spot for you in the very front of the line for your glass of CoolAid. As stated in a earlier post you will make a great CoolAid Drinker.

 

That's what a know-nothing nugget calls 'informational picketing'

 

To Skywriting

Point 1: I don't work for Delta but these guys/gals have already given in most cases in excess of a 50% cut in Pay & Benefits last year. What did their MGT do with the billions in concessions?

Point 2. If you were currently working in the industry and had experience with collective bargining your opinions would carry some weight, however, You do not and they don't.

Point 3. The whole point of collective bargining to have a
Legal right to ask for Quid pro Quo when in discussions (negotiations) with MGT, both in Good times and the Bad. The Delta Pilots have a contract. All they are asking is for MGT to bargin...........not dictate.

Point 4 is probably the most important. If it wasn't for collective bargining in the first place (Meaning Unions) you probably would not want this Job anyway. The Delta Pilots are a professional bunch and they know what they are facing...................Why do you think 95% of them voted to strike? Do you really think 5400 hundred pilots would just arbitrarily vote to strike?..................That is their last legal method to attempt to get their MGT tp bargain in good faith..............Just like the NW Pilots were faced with a month ago.

Point 5. Unions having too much power?....Pleeeaasssse. Can unions stop Corp Exces from getting Multi Million in bonuses afer they squander Billions and running Airlines into bankruptcy? Can Unions get MGT to price their product where they can make a profit? Can unions save the corporate pension fiasco?All the Unions can say is enough is enough and that is what you are seeing presently.

Point 6. If you do get into the industry, I would love to hear your opinions after a year or so on the line. Until then, I suggest that you Sit back, watch, learn and keep your uniformed "outside looking in" opinions to a minimum................

Just one pilot's opinion who has been in the industry for 20+ years and just like many of my bretheren who post here, I've been thru negotiations x 6, paycuts after paycuts, furloughs. mergers, strikes, staring over 3 times. I am fortunate enough to currently be employed by a very profitable company. I have seen it all except for the Divorce and that is one I hope to avoid.

I for one understand what the Delta (and other Pilot groups are facing) I know they face a very tough choice. But I for one admire them and support them 100%. Who knows I may be faced with the same choice in the coming year.

 

HEAR! . . HEAR!!

WELL SAID . . . but you were W-A-A-A-Y too polite <G> . . shoulda told him ‘FO’ . . and that isn’t a ‘seat position’