What does the flight crew want?
 

If a new regional airline were to start up. What does the flight crew want as a QOL. Without a union. Remember this would be a start up. So don't say you want $80.00 ph. You will be flying turbo-props. Give me some good ideas, please.

Duty Rigs
Trip Rigs
10hr MIN. Layovers(behind door)
Crewmeals

You get what you pay for - offer poverty wages and QOL then expect a high turnover. You'll pay for it in recurring training costs, etc. Pay a decent wage and prepare to lead by example, and you might cultivate loyal employees who go the extra mile for the customers.

Start up or not, you need to cost realistic wages and QOL or you're really not raising the capital you need to succeed. You get what you pay for.

How many seats in the turbo prop?

You also have to look at your competition. Ameriflight will pay 40K for a captain of a metro. Based on this I would say captains make that starting off and keep QOL acceptable.

Also as previously posted, lead by example and do what you say. There are 100's of bad examples not to follow and just a few good ones. Remember the saying, "a company never got a union without deserving one"

The last thing this industry needs is a new regional startup. Believe me, there is nothing you or I can think of that will be so innovative youll be able to start a great/profitable regional turboprop airline that will compete with the large regionals like Skywest, CHQ/RAH, Expressjet, or wholly owned regional carriers with serious financial backing to undercut your prices the moment you move into their territory. If you really want to own an airline buy up one of the small struggling carriers like CommutAir, Great Lakes, Gulfstream and go from there.

All you have to do is offer the exact same contract as any other carrier. Let the pilots vote on the airline contract they want to copy. You would then have nothing to complain about because you would not have the highest costs, and the pilots would have an industry leading contract.

Why would they care if its a start up or not? 80 dollars per hour for working their A@@ off like you are going to do is well worth it.

Thank you for the info so far. There is a market out there for another regional. So far the pay is postion above GLA, CommutAir, Mesa and just under SKW. With a work week of 4 on 3 off, flying 19 to 30 passenger T-props.

...and the name of the company is ?

Why not? I get 30/hour flying 1900s at a non-union regional as an FO, CAs get 50. How many 1900 FOs make 40 grand a year?

who do you work for as an F/O making 40K a year in a 1900. Let me know cause I got a resume I need to send.

Frontier Flying Service... be wared... you need to be able to brave 40 below and 40 knots of wind (crosswind landings up to that are a norm here, not an exception), and you also have to be prepared to fly 1400 hours a year as well as work your butt off. Still beats CRJ FO pay for a few years.

Also the 30/hour is what it averages out to in my case, regular pay is 15/hour + 50/day + any perdiem if the assignment calls for it.

So what you are saying is that your not really paid 30/hr for flying the B1900. Its ok, No one is mad...

But yo make: 15/hr and 2.08/hr PerDiem. On top of that you work 50% more than the average Regional FO flying, since you said you fly 1400 hours a year. Also what does working your but off mean exactly?

But I agree with you on one thing. Working conitions do need to improve for all sectors of Part 121 flying and also some other areas as well, as you pointed out.

It's actually very hard to not average at least 30/hour, since the less you fly the more you make per hour, it's backwards, but the daily wage and the per diem make it work out that way... per diem is also not 2.08, it's based on if you're overnighting somewhere etc. etc., sometimes a flat 25/day sometimes 85/day, during the summer or when they're short on guys in your seat at a base it can give you an easy extra 200/check at least for being away from home for two to four days).

I also sleep at home 9/10 nights, can afford my rent, don't need to commute or have a crashpad, and working your butt off means you get to help unload and fuel (along with the CA) in certain outstations, it's not for everybody, but I'd rather fuel a plane than spend time being overnighted in 4 different cities on one trip.

A pilot that lives in base at the airlines like you live in base for your employer can also be at home every night if they bid day trips. Provided they are senior enough. While I am not trying to take a jap at your work schedule, pay, or anything else, I do want to show that there are several things to look at when considering Pilot working conditions.

A company that sets up a new shop needs to realize that pay alone does not solve the problem but neither does just work rules. Its the whole pie that needs to be fairly organized and divided.

HSLD put it best with a simple "you get what you pay for" statement. Ever pilot wants to work for a company that makes money but they also deserve to be at a company that has a business plan that does not require substandard conditions for its employees.

However you wanna look at it, the bottom line comes down to the fact that I make a great wage at a company where I like working, it's not substandard, it's part of the job.

Thank you guys for the info so far. I flew the line and I know what I and the other pilot's wanted. I also look at what the company needs. That's why I'm saying 4 day work weeks, gives you time to commute home on your weekend, a good flight pay with profit sharing for everyone. What else?

Right now I'll settle for a good, steady job!

Once I get that piece sorted the rest is easy.

*A business where the employer and employees work together to achieve a common goal, the success of the business. Without that, point one goes down the drain.

*The ability to grow with the company based on merit.

*Mutual respect in the employer/employee relationship.

As I said, right now I'll settle for the first point so if you know of someone in need of a good employee send them my way!

Most line pilots will pass the checkrides, show up on time and complete the trips per FAR's and company procedures. Considering that all of these are met, a pilot's contribution to profit or loss are, effectively, equal. How do you determine merit?

My point; Merit based systems do not belong at airlines.

I think it's great that you thoroughly enjoy your line of work, however, be very careful when you blatantly say you make a great wage. Being very young and without a family to raise, $30 an hour still sounds mediocre (way short of great), however, when you throw in how much you spent on flight training, how hard you work and in what type of conditions, and then top that off with a family of 3 or 4 to feed, $30 an hour starts to look like slave labor. Give it time, and never stop striving for better.
As a regional FO back in 2002, with an average of 16 days off, I made $37 an hour. Throw in inflationary adjustments and one can clearly see the scale has been sliding way down...... Sad.
BTW: per diem is not part of your salary or wages so it should never be included in what you make. It exists because it has to, not because your employer wants to pay you extra.
Fly safe and be careful with those crosswinds:)

Hi, just wonder if pilot can fly more than 80 hours/ month? I checked out several websites and most airlines have their pilot fly around 60-75 hours. How many hours did you started up flying and what's your current hour/month? Thank you!

Not sure if you’re a pilot or not so I include some extra terms just in case you aren’t.

FAR Part 121 pilots (the regulation applies to most airline jobs) can fly up to 30 hours in a week, 100 hours in a month and 1,000 hours in a year... Those are flying hours, not working or duty hours...

As a commuter pilot I frequently flew ~90 or so hours a month. In fact 2 years in a row I “timed out” around December and couldn't fly anymore (no, I didn't get any time off, they used me for some pubs work... :rolleyes:)

Later, when I worked for a low cost airline I flew ~75-85 hours/month when I had a hard line (or a schedule you can see a month in advance). I flew ~65-80 hours a month when I was on reserve (basically living by the pager waiting to be called to work where you have to arrive within 1 1/2 hour of being called).

Note - at passenger airlines reserve is often the schedule most junior pilots will get (bids awarded by seniority - the more senior the better schedule).

At cargo airlines (where I am now) quite often reserve schedules are preferred by the senior pilots (reserves do not get used as much at Fedex and UPS and therefore the senior guys/gals who live at their domicile can enjoy spending more time at home.)

Currently I mix a hard line schedule with a reserve schedule. When on reserve some months I fly 0 hours/month and others I might fly 50 hours. Hard lines anywhere from 60 hours to 80 hours.

All the numbers are flying hours, not credit hours. Duty hours, time away from home, etc. are much longer. Other pilots' experiences might vary greatly even if they worked for the same airline. It depends on the person's seniority, equipment, schedule preferences, living in/out of domicile, etc, etc.

In a nutshell, commuter pilots have the worst schedules, work the longest hours, fly the most, often with little if any automation and get the least appreciation and respect from their passengers and their employers. They also have the shortest layovers, stay at the crappiest hotels and make the least money. :(

Hope this helps, however if you’re trying to learn about the field of aviation by comparing flying hours you’ll never get it right. It’s like comparing apples to tractors…


Also, if you’re in the news media, which I suspect you might be, you’re part of a scumbag industry and should remember that all the innuendos, half-truths and straight lies your friends (and maybe even you) have written about the Colgan pilots and other pilots from past accidents will catch up with you all. Karma does not discriminate!

If that's not you, I sincerely apologize.

⌐ AV8OR WANNABE , Thanks for the reply,
No i'm not in the media industry, can't stand that. I want to be a commercial pilot and just want to know more about the work schedule. That's why I asked. Thanks for the insight! :) It sounds hard, but just plain awesome :D

Be different
 

Since there is a market for a turboprop regional carrier out there lets cut to the chase. Southwest Airlines way of doing business is a good business model to follow. They have proven first -- RESPECT each other; second -- you can pay an above average wage and still be profitable; third -- you will have employee loyalty which will save long-term labor costs; fourth the customers WILL be satisfied because the company's energy and positve dynamism will be apparent; fifth -- you can pick the best of the best of employees because people want to work here because it is a great place to work!

Be different
 

Since there is a market for a turboprop regional carrier out there lets cut to the chase. Southwest Airlines way of doing business is a good business model to follow. They have proven first -- RESPECT each other; second -- you can pay an above average wage and still be profitable; third -- you will have employee loyalty which will save long-term labor costs; fourth the customers WILL be satisfied because the company's energy and positve dynamism will be apparent; fifth -- you can pick the best of the best of employees because people want to work here because it is a great place to work!

Got ya, it's a tough career to get into but very rewarding in my opinion.

Enjoying your 'job' or loving what you do is very important to me and many other pilots. Unfortunately, many employers are aware of our weakness and will try to exploit us, the pilots, for their own winnings.

If you got other questions, shoot away...

Merit=Kissing Employers rear end on daily basis, stroking employers SHAFT on demand. :mad::mad:

I agree with Zapata, merit based systems do NOT belong at the airlines..

SureProp??

Why does it always have to be butt-kissing?

Lets see...

Employee A:

Shows up on time, in clean and pressed uniform, doesn't abuse sick leave, gets letters of appreciation for taking care of the customers, is well-liked by his/her colleagues.

Employee B:

Late often, uniform looks like it has never seen an iron or a dry cleaner, always uses up the entire sick leave and then some, doesn't do anything beyond the mandated bare bone minimum.

Now, time to decide whom to promote. Employee B has been with the company longer. Who gets upgraded and why?

As a former ALPA member of 8 years, I know the answer. "Date of hire and damn the 'butt-kissers/A-teamers!"

Trouble is... what does this do for the quality of my operation? What message does it send to my employees?

What's with the thread revival? I don't recall any regional start ups since 2009. Guess there wasn't room after all. :D

Don't forget Employee C:
-Shows up for work on time
-Spit and polished
-Few sick calls
-Has a poor on time performance because MX usually does line checks before he takes over the aircraft.
-Flies on the back side of the clock and weekends (the lines most pilots hate). So, the day pukes never see or hear of the guy; and as a result, he gets passed over because Chief Pilot CA Schmuckatelly doesn't know who he is.

What do you think this guys chances are?

Here's a question for you, beyond date of hire, why should a person get promoted?

Let me share with you what happened on my very last trip. I fly a large cabin business jet. Our normal crew complement is 2 pilots/1 flight mechanic/up to 5 cabin crew. Now, we took over from an inbound crew who had this full complement and ferried the plane to base as it was needed for another long range mission. We only had 1 cabin crew and 1 flying mech. To make matters worse, we received a late departure slot, plus we had to de-ice. Furthermore, we didn't have time to get the cleaning done on the ground as we always do. So what happened? During the flight back, the FA and the mech washed all the dishes, dried them off, cleaned the cabin and the galleys, restocked all items, put together a resupply list for the next crew. Did they have to do it? Nope. The FA could have simply said, sorry, I was alone so I did the best I could - not much. Mech could have zonked out in the back or watched movies. This was DEFINITELY not in his job description.
Mind you, both of these people stay the hell away from the office and off the radar.

I wrote a report to Director of Maintenance and Head of Cabin Crew about what these two did with cc to upper management, and both received appreciation letters.

Would I have said anything if they didn't do anything beyond the barebones minimum? Nope. Would the company say anything? nope. Would the following flight be more adversely affected? Yes. Was there a valid reason/excuse? Yes. Yet these two shined. Why? Perhaps because they care about their fellow crew/mission? This is the biggest problem with strict seniority system - no incentive to do anything beyond the mandated minimum, and in turn, your product won't be anywhere near what it could be. Not to say that seniority shouldn't be a factor, but end-all-be-all? I don't think so.

That's not your decision to make, my man.
p.s. why is this in the "majors" forum? and why do I care? :D

-- got trolled.

holy necroposting, benny!

No good dead goes unpunished, esp when it is "favor" for crew sked.

Yeah it's necroposting, but I have to add employee D on top of the others for merit based promotion.

-Shows up for work on time
-Spit and polished
-Few sick calls
-Well liked and respected; good pilot
-Takes care of customers
-Unfortunately, he is one of over 8,000 pilots, of whom 6,000+ do a great job on a daily basis. The list is so enormous, it's impossible to stand out from such a herd. He is lost in the huge mass of excellent employees who do their job very well.

The only way to get "merit" in such an organization is either gross sycophancy, or "knowing" somebody.

syco-what?
I think I know what it means by the context but I'm gonna have to google that and get back to ya!

K, I'm back.
Alternatives

• apple-polishing
  EDITED FOR PROFANITY.
• bootlicker
• brown nosing
• crawler
• fawning
• flunky
• grovelling
• hanger-on
• kowtowing
• lackey
• lickspittle
• sucking up
• toady
• yes man

And I agree.
And I learned a new word. Who says APC isn't educational.:D

It also takes getting on the bad side of one wrong individual to scuttle your chance of advancement. In a cockpit I'd rather have both pilots think about flying the plane safely than having one think about how he can message the other pilots ego to get ahead. Thats is a slippery slope. Think about how a new-hire feels when he flies with a Chief pilot or other mgmt pilot. More than 5 times outta 10 the new-hire is gonna probably just go along with Captain Mgmt pilot even though Capt Mgmt pilot doesn't fly the line regularly. I think most captains appreciate a first officer that is gonna do the right thing, not follow the captain down the wrong path. And everyone here can tell me that being told you're wrong is always a great feeling. Perhaps everyone here can tell me that they have never been wrong either.

Of course that's just my opinion...man.

Is brown-nosing really the only way you can think of?

So let's say there are 1,000 dirtbags in front of him. Should his career be held hostage by them simply due to date-of-hire? I personally don't think so. There is no accountability in a union shop.

Are you familiar with how Emirates does the upgrade selection? Or how they bid for schedules? Or how is seniority applied there? Read up a bit about it... it's interesting and innovative for sure. What's even better... Emirates doesn't devalue a pilot, very much unlike airline pilot unions in the US.