jsled

OK. I don't get it. How is NWA's contract better than UAL's?
Payscales...higher at UAL on all equipment except the A-320. DC plan...15% at UAL, 5% at NWA. Deadhead...full pay at UAL, 50% at NWA. Sick leave...paid 100% at UAL not 100% at NWA on the second call. What? work rules...well UAL still has them on the big equipment, gave em up on the 737 and Airbus...but...if you look at a lineholders schedule with the new PBS, you will see 14 to 17 days off. IOW, they are building efficient pairings without the union work rules. Reserves on the 737 and 320 are the only real losers. And BTW, the 737 and 320 reserves just got 12 days off per month in a new sideletter. (it was 10). SO please explain your bold statement about how the NWA TA is "still better than UAL's".

duffrick

Pensions; A frozen pension is better than none at all. Granted, only the top 25% (guesstimate) will be getting significantly more than the PBGC guarantee but, quite a few will be getting more than the PBGC guarantee.

Work rules; You are correct in that your pay on some of the larger equipment is better - remember, the numbers NWA do not include international override which we still have, so the numbers look further apart because of it - but your narrow-body pilot group on the Airbus and the 737 make less and have more onerous work rules. I have to admit that I don't know where your 757/767 pilot group sit work rule side but, if they are on the Airbus/737 side then, the vast majority of your pilot group got hosed work rule wise.

Profit sharing and equity; The NWA TA contain a profit sharing that is based on a percentage of the first dollar (and every dollar after that) of profit the company makes. The NWA TA also include language of equity that may be worth $880 million (doesn't make up for the $1.8 billion given up in this TA but, it's better than nothing at all.) There is also a performance bonus that can amount up to 1.2% of your pay. None of these numbers are reflected in the hourly pay scales published on this website. Of course it is debatable how valuable a profit sharing program is at NWA - so far they have been big busts. Stock, as you guys at UAL know very well, is also a major uncertainty.


Now, did I say that the NWA TA was a lot better than UAL's contract? No, but as a narrow-body guy I have to say that I believe I am better off at NWA than I would be at UAL. I guess that means we both made the best choices for ourselves. Having said that, I think the NWA and DAL TA's, the UAL and the AAA contracts suck. The industry is in a major slide in the wrong direction but, hopefully the slides are stopping with NWA, AAA, UAL and DAL. If JBU, AMR, CAL and SWA get concessions out of their pilot groups - watch out below!

crewdawg52

Our TA flat out stinks! It's too long of a contract, the deadhead provision sucks (will be really bad for the guys who are flying in Asia on the 757. They DH from MSP to NRT and back), and the DFC also sucks hind tit! And to top it all off, I'll give anyone odds that Steal'in will get rid of the frozen pensions anyway. He made his 3.7 million last year.

duffrick

I agree that the contract is too long. As for the DH on the 757, I believe that the trip gurantee, even with the new TA, will cover the DH leg to and from Asia so a DH penalty shouldn't be felt on those trips.

Since you work for NWA, you know that there isn't a lot of DH built into our schedules. If that changes, it'll go against the "productivity utilization" Steal'in is talking about. As with UAL, we are going to have to do our best in producing side-letters that penalizes the company if they try to abuse this provision.

As for the pensions, just remember that the executive pensions are intertwined with ours. If our pension goes, so does theirs. Besides, NWA wouldn't only give the PBGC the money that is in our pension fund at the moment, but also a sizeable chunk of stock that will be re-issued just as in the UAL and AAA cases. I don't think Steal'in is interested in giving the US Government a third of our new, crisp stock, do you? It is in management's best interest to keep the frozen pension in our hands and on our property.

757Driver

Alas poor Duffrick thats exactly what management told us before we approved our contract that also had a 50% DHD clause. You'll never guess what happened next? Yep, our DHD increased 5 fold, (especially on the 757), and the company shrugged its shoulders and said "oh-well"

Perhaps a lesson you could have picked-up on before you voted?

crewdawg52

Oh yea..... I expect dh to go WAY up....Yet, I have not flown with anyone who will admit that they voted FOR the TA.....Truely amazing....Intercourse heads!

reCALcitrant

Finding people that vote "yes" for these contracts is like trying to find somebody who voted for Clinton.

IXLR8

Or either Bush......

B757200ER

Or went to Carolina...

tomgoodman

I wish that were the case at Delta. Both sides pretty much agree that our defined-benefit plan is toast, regardless of what Congress does. But beware that your executives might set up an additional, "special" plan for themselves, as ours did. It was called a SERP, allegedly to "retain top talent", and was bankruptcy-proof. Somehow, any requirement to stay around was omitted from the plan, so the executives took the loot and fled.