Delta's Anderson gives "bleak assessment"
02-12-2009 | 07:15 PM
#12
Underboob King
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 4,412
Likes: 0
From: Guppy Commander
I think the discussion is about the front line employees and not counting the pilots. They excluded the pilots from the early outs thus far which points to them not wanting to thin the pilot group, yet. There are many factors coming up that will increase the need for pilots so time will tell how the cards fall. We'll see
02-12-2009 | 07:15 PM
#13
veut gagner à la loterie
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 23,286
Likes: 0
From: Light Chop
Awesome.
I am really feeling good now because I have it on paper that I'll never be furloughed, I have a union looking out for me despite being junior, I have protection from having to fly those crappy little 76 seat jets that are beneath Moak's big boy fleet, and we all are about to get an economic stimulus that will create (or save) 4 million jobs and that should pass Saturday before anyone voting for it reads it.
Looks like I picked the right week to start sniffing glue.
I'll admit, I have little confidence in keeping my job in the fall BUT YOU KNOW WHAT... I love this job. I'll enjoy it until it ends, if it ends.
I am really feeling good now because I have it on paper that I'll never be furloughed, I have a union looking out for me despite being junior, I have protection from having to fly those crappy little 76 seat jets that are beneath Moak's big boy fleet, and we all are about to get an economic stimulus that will create (or save) 4 million jobs and that should pass Saturday before anyone voting for it reads it.
Looks like I picked the right week to start sniffing glue.
I'll admit, I have little confidence in keeping my job in the fall BUT YOU KNOW WHAT... I love this job. I'll enjoy it until it ends, if it ends.
Last edited by forgot to bid; 02-12-2009 at 10:18 PM. Reason: Changed wrong week to right week
02-12-2009 | 08:46 PM
#14
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 6,070
Likes: 1
From: Urban chicken rancher.
I don't get it guys. The jets I'm flying are full. Granted, its the 73NG but we're doing coast-to-coast stuff and they are oversold for the most part. Flew one leg yesterday from SLC to SFO that was 75% or so. The rest over the last two weeks have been oversold. Is it because of the capacity reductions? If not, why can't DAL turn full flights into $$$?
02-12-2009 | 09:17 PM
#15
Line Holder
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 825
Likes: 10
From: metal tube operator
It's a numbers game
I've flown out and back to Mexico with 60 pax outbound, and 20 pax inbound (with about a handful non-rev), on 738 as well. Gate agents I've talked to they said it's been very erratic, at best, but it's a dropoff from previous years for sure.
Companies have ways to "manipulate" the numbers as they see fit to soften the blow, and I see this announcement as nothing but a precursor to another round of cuts, I just hope they'll honor our new "no-furlough" clause this time... <wink, wink>
Companies have ways to "manipulate" the numbers as they see fit to soften the blow, and I see this announcement as nothing but a precursor to another round of cuts, I just hope they'll honor our new "no-furlough" clause this time... <wink, wink>
02-13-2009 | 01:53 AM
#17
New Hire
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
From: DISPLACING AGAIN?
My personal opinion is that we will see significant furloughs during the next few years. It matters not what the company says at the moment, as it has always been behind the power curve economically. We were still hiring when the recessionary writing was on the wall in early 2001. In March of that year, Fred Reid gave a lounge (ATL) briefing with a notable look of fear on his face, discussing the airline forecast. I will remember the look on his face that day for the rest of my career. We were still hiring +/- 60 pilots a month and continued to do so until July, when the 16-July class was told they would be the last. A few months later, the 9-11 TERRORIST attacks compounded the problem and, as everyone knows, the furlough floodgates opened.
I flew with a lot of guys who did not think they would be furloughed…that it wouldn’t get to them. Sadly, it did. Quarter after quarter, both company and ALPA economists predicted an end was in sight. I saw a lot of graphs, produced by both sides, projecting revenues rebounding within 2-4 quarters….then another 2-4 quarters…then another 2-4 quarters…the ‘turnaround’ became a moving target. Meanwhile we continued to borrow money while losing millions/day (thanks Michelle B.). The problem: there was nothing on the horizon to stop the blood-letting; nothing significant to begin generating profits. Low cost competition was fierce, the business travelers were no longer paying the high ticket prices and the airline lost the ability to control prices. The seats were filling up but the prices weren’t supporting the operation. Both the company and union were asking themselves if this was merely cyclical or something more permanent. I remember the MEC Chair not wanting to admit the latter knowing it would mean the company would come asking for permanent concessions. The Walmart mentality was here to stay, however, and so was the debt; bankruptcy was inevitable.
Many would say that this time is different…I agree. It’s worse. This country continues to shed jobs at historic rates; this will continue and it will have a domino effect. To think it won’t eventually have a significant and long term effect on an industry reliant upon business and pleasure travel – discretionary spending – is simply unrealistic.
What concerns me the most is this country’s belief that borrowing nearly 1 trillion dollars (not including interest and what’s already owed) to ‘stimulate’ the economy with pork will turn things around. Once again, there is nothing on the horizon to turn things around. And this time there aren’t many credit lines left to be tapped to falsely prop up the economy as in recent years. It’s the debt – the national debt, the company debt and personal debt-and debt maturation/obligation. This country doesn’t produce anything anymore and we are not energy independant!!! I still don’t understand why an airline pilot would support the anti-drilling party. The lifeblood of our industry is gas…talk about voting your job (away)!
I wonder how long it will be before our new environmental czarstress – socialist and supporter of global governance (or American submission) – Carol Browner, proposes something like this: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/travelnews/4536352/Flights-could-be-rationed-says-environment-tsar-Lord-Turner.html
Think it can’t happen? Conditions of our expected bailout (you know, the bailout everyone is basing this get-too-big-to-fail-merger on) may just entail some of this global warming/climate change science…why should our gas-guzzling industry be excluded from the all the hope and change? It may not come to this because the economy will do the rationing naturally.
More on Ms. Browner: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/jan/12/obama-climate-czar-has-socialist-ties/
Delta has tapped a $1 Billion credit line to administer this merger, it seems. That is: 1,000,000,000 (doesn’t sound like much when our government throws around billions and trillions of our money with such reckless abandonment). http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123059871448041253.html
But we Americans no longer care about a few hundred “illions” with an “M” anymore, do we? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEfICUoWKBw
Like this country and our company’s pre-bankruptcy days, we are printing/‘raising’ cash – NOT generating it (revenue). This won’t end well for us…especially when most of the world hates us.
I wonder what the pre-merger DAL pilots will think when we all end up with pay rates equivalent to pre-merger NWA? I wonder if they will get to keep their pensions? If not, the NWA guys probably won’t be in a hurry to retire as projected…but at least all the DC-9’s will be repainted! With jobless claims increasing, methinks you'd have to be nuts to voluntarily leave a job.
I flew with a lot of guys who did not think they would be furloughed…that it wouldn’t get to them. Sadly, it did. Quarter after quarter, both company and ALPA economists predicted an end was in sight. I saw a lot of graphs, produced by both sides, projecting revenues rebounding within 2-4 quarters….then another 2-4 quarters…then another 2-4 quarters…the ‘turnaround’ became a moving target. Meanwhile we continued to borrow money while losing millions/day (thanks Michelle B.). The problem: there was nothing on the horizon to stop the blood-letting; nothing significant to begin generating profits. Low cost competition was fierce, the business travelers were no longer paying the high ticket prices and the airline lost the ability to control prices. The seats were filling up but the prices weren’t supporting the operation. Both the company and union were asking themselves if this was merely cyclical or something more permanent. I remember the MEC Chair not wanting to admit the latter knowing it would mean the company would come asking for permanent concessions. The Walmart mentality was here to stay, however, and so was the debt; bankruptcy was inevitable.
Many would say that this time is different…I agree. It’s worse. This country continues to shed jobs at historic rates; this will continue and it will have a domino effect. To think it won’t eventually have a significant and long term effect on an industry reliant upon business and pleasure travel – discretionary spending – is simply unrealistic.
What concerns me the most is this country’s belief that borrowing nearly 1 trillion dollars (not including interest and what’s already owed) to ‘stimulate’ the economy with pork will turn things around. Once again, there is nothing on the horizon to turn things around. And this time there aren’t many credit lines left to be tapped to falsely prop up the economy as in recent years. It’s the debt – the national debt, the company debt and personal debt-and debt maturation/obligation. This country doesn’t produce anything anymore and we are not energy independant!!! I still don’t understand why an airline pilot would support the anti-drilling party. The lifeblood of our industry is gas…talk about voting your job (away)!
I wonder how long it will be before our new environmental czarstress – socialist and supporter of global governance (or American submission) – Carol Browner, proposes something like this: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/travelnews/4536352/Flights-could-be-rationed-says-environment-tsar-Lord-Turner.html
Think it can’t happen? Conditions of our expected bailout (you know, the bailout everyone is basing this get-too-big-to-fail-merger on) may just entail some of this global warming/climate change science…why should our gas-guzzling industry be excluded from the all the hope and change? It may not come to this because the economy will do the rationing naturally.
More on Ms. Browner: http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2009/jan/12/obama-climate-czar-has-socialist-ties/
Delta has tapped a $1 Billion credit line to administer this merger, it seems. That is: 1,000,000,000 (doesn’t sound like much when our government throws around billions and trillions of our money with such reckless abandonment). http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123059871448041253.html
But we Americans no longer care about a few hundred “illions” with an “M” anymore, do we? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEfICUoWKBw
Like this country and our company’s pre-bankruptcy days, we are printing/‘raising’ cash – NOT generating it (revenue). This won’t end well for us…especially when most of the world hates us.
I wonder what the pre-merger DAL pilots will think when we all end up with pay rates equivalent to pre-merger NWA? I wonder if they will get to keep their pensions? If not, the NWA guys probably won’t be in a hurry to retire as projected…but at least all the DC-9’s will be repainted! With jobless claims increasing, methinks you'd have to be nuts to voluntarily leave a job.
02-13-2009 | 03:05 AM
#18
Line Holder
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 53
Likes: 0
From: retired
I hope the XXXXXXX retire before there are any furloughs...
I mean seriously, those pilots have had the advantage of the age 60 rule all of there careers, how is this fair to a pilot who just got hired at DL or NW??? For that matter, Fed Ex, UPS, or any other big time airline?
How cute.
Last edited by vagabond; 02-13-2009 at 10:40 AM. Reason: removed derogatory word
02-13-2009 | 05:40 AM
#19
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 306
Likes: 0
We have furloughed pilots being told they cannot get WIA funds for truck-drivers school because there are so few jobs in that sector at this time.
Its all good
