Delta MEC suggestion for the Junior Folks
02-13-2009 | 12:23 AM
#1
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Gets Weekends Off
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From: 7ER B
Delta MEC suggestion for the Junior Folks
As I understand it, typical votes, on any issues at DAL get very few actual votes. If this is the case, all of the junior guys and gals here at DAL, including FNWA, should seriously consider a grass roots effort to vote as a block for our "party". We seriously need to get representation on the LEC's that are JUNIOR FO's. Not FO's that are senior enough to be captains anyway.
If we get a couple thousand guys and gals to vote for people who actually represent our wishes, we at least can be assured that they will, at a minimum, vote in their own best interest. This will of course be in the interest of those of their peer group.
I suggest that we begin to vote in "our people". That would be junior FO's into every position that does not specifically require a Captain. We could effectively Influence the MEC by using the normal democratic processes in place.
Do not get me wrong. I am not a union hater. On the contrary, I am a strong union supporter. Nevertheless, I do not feel that on this issue the MEC represented MY interest, nor that of my peer group.
For the Record, I am a DAL 7er FO hired in 07. I consider my Peer group to be those of us at the New Delta in the bottom several thousand of the list.
I am very interested in the opinions from both sides of the family on my suggestion.
Slinky
If we get a couple thousand guys and gals to vote for people who actually represent our wishes, we at least can be assured that they will, at a minimum, vote in their own best interest. This will of course be in the interest of those of their peer group.
I suggest that we begin to vote in "our people". That would be junior FO's into every position that does not specifically require a Captain. We could effectively Influence the MEC by using the normal democratic processes in place.
Do not get me wrong. I am not a union hater. On the contrary, I am a strong union supporter. Nevertheless, I do not feel that on this issue the MEC represented MY interest, nor that of my peer group.
For the Record, I am a DAL 7er FO hired in 07. I consider my Peer group to be those of us at the New Delta in the bottom several thousand of the list.
I am very interested in the opinions from both sides of the family on my suggestion.
Slinky
Last edited by slinky; 02-13-2009 at 06:28 AM. Reason: changed "take over" to influence to to the fact it was a dumb choice of words
02-13-2009 | 03:13 AM
#2
Furloughed Again?!
Joined: Aug 2007
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From: Boeing 737
In 2000 the apathy of the junior vote at US Airways was overwhelming. Scope and other provisions that negatively impacted junior pilots were being voted upon every day.
So we started a little group called "A Unified Front". Printed 500 bag tags that said, "Protect the 1149", started a website, and got the largest turnout of junior pilots at a Philly MEC meeting in years.
You have to campaign for your peer-group. It takes some communication, some drive, and good organizational skills, but it helps.
So we started a little group called "A Unified Front". Printed 500 bag tags that said, "Protect the 1149", started a website, and got the largest turnout of junior pilots at a Philly MEC meeting in years.
You have to campaign for your peer-group. It takes some communication, some drive, and good organizational skills, but it helps.
02-13-2009 | 03:20 AM
#3
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From: A-320A
Great idea, but it will be quite hard to get the my generation to do anything that is not totally about them.
This needs to come from across the board. If junior guys think they can come in and call all of the shots they will get slapped real hard, and not just by the people in the union.
I agree that something needs to be done, but the quickest way to pi$$ off half to this group is to be told what and how to do it by a junior guy.
This needs to come from across the board. If junior guys think they can come in and call all of the shots they will get slapped real hard, and not just by the people in the union.
I agree that something needs to be done, but the quickest way to pi$$ off half to this group is to be told what and how to do it by a junior guy.
02-13-2009 | 03:36 AM
#4
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From: 7ER B
Great idea, but it will be quite hard to get the my generation to do anything that is not totally about them.
This needs to come from across the board. If junior guys think they can come in and call all of the shots they will get slapped real hard, and not just by the people in the union.
I agree that something needs to be done, but the quickest way to pi$$ off half to this group is to be told what and how to do it by a junior guy.
This needs to come from across the board. If junior guys think they can come in and call all of the shots they will get slapped real hard, and not just by the people in the union.
I agree that something needs to be done, but the quickest way to pi$$ off half to this group is to be told what and how to do it by a junior guy.
Maybe, but then again a pretty quick way to **** off a bunch of guys at the bottom is to make decisions that get them furloughed, displaced, force them to commute or just pushed down to reserve. Is our quality of life and job security worth less because of our seniority number? If someone answers yes to this question, then I really do not care if they don't like me.
It must be stated that ALPA is a democratic organization. We elect or representation. If enough people feel threatened to elect people who they feel share their fortunes, by being near to their seniority, then they can at least be assured that these people will accurately represent their wishes.
It is likely that this will not "take over" the MEC. But it could, at the very least, act as a surge damper.
Or I could be wrong....
Discuss
02-13-2009 | 04:22 AM
#5
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From: A-320A
I agree that pilots on the bottom 20% need to be in electable positions. To make the changes that the majority, who vote and nothing else, would like to see, it needs to be a cross section of the group. Not weighted to far junior or senior. That way all voices get heard.
As you know, the quickest way to irritate someone is to be junior and whining about something. They see it as your duty to sit down and be quiet.
I agree that that is BS, but it is also reality. That is why having a guy with a really low seniority number saying the same thing as a guy that has a high one, adds credibility to the argument.
As you know, the quickest way to irritate someone is to be junior and whining about something. They see it as your duty to sit down and be quiet.
I agree that that is BS, but it is also reality. That is why having a guy with a really low seniority number saying the same thing as a guy that has a high one, adds credibility to the argument.
02-13-2009 | 05:30 AM
#7
Line Holder
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,344
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From: 765A
folks, you need to get involved. I remember when I went to the LEC meeting here in ATL, when there was a recall motion on the LEC reps. I was amazed at how few people were there. The reps were able to stack the room with their buddies and avoided recall. Things like this give Moak all the ammo he needs to do whatever he wants on the negotiating table. Get involved. Go to LEC meetings. Call everyday and tell the duty pilot how ****ed you are. VOTE! As long as the Moak administration is running the union, there will be more scope givebacks.
02-13-2009 | 06:05 AM
#8
Can't abide NAI
Joined: Jun 2007
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From: Douglas Aerospace post production Flight Test & Work Around Engineering bulletin dissembler
You know the part I don't understand?
Why is anyone surprised when the contract they voted for is being executed as it is written?
The time to be involved is when your contract bargaining committee is at the table, not a year after the fact.
I wrote on this board that we should not vote for the JPWA because the scope stunk and we could do better while the Company was in wheel and deal mode.
As a group we must return to ALPA's core beliefs.
We also must convince our leadership that we are a representative organization. Our Reps and our MEC's job is to represent their pilots. This is not a top down organization, it gets its power from the bottom up.
Why is anyone surprised when the contract they voted for is being executed as it is written?
The time to be involved is when your contract bargaining committee is at the table, not a year after the fact.
I wrote on this board that we should not vote for the JPWA because the scope stunk and we could do better while the Company was in wheel and deal mode.
As a group we must return to ALPA's core beliefs.
We also must convince our leadership that we are a representative organization. Our Reps and our MEC's job is to represent their pilots. This is not a top down organization, it gets its power from the bottom up.
Last edited by Bucking Bar; 02-13-2009 at 06:17 AM.
02-13-2009 | 07:49 AM
#9
Back on TDY
Joined: Apr 2008
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From: 747-400 Captain
Great idea, but it will be quite hard to get the my generation to do anything that is not totally about them.
This needs to come from across the board. If junior guys think they can come in and call all of the shots they will get slapped real hard, and not just by the people in the union.
I agree that something needs to be done, but the quickest way to pi$$ off half to this group is to be told what and how to do it by a junior guy.
This needs to come from across the board. If junior guys think they can come in and call all of the shots they will get slapped real hard, and not just by the people in the union.
I agree that something needs to be done, but the quickest way to pi$$ off half to this group is to be told what and how to do it by a junior guy.
The problem at DALPA right now is that the democratic foundation of our union is being perverted by a dictator. If the system was working, all parts of the list would be represented. That's why we have FO reps, Capt reps and reps from all bases. This by definition makes the representation disparate across the pilot group. But here's the problem: none of that matters if everything is run by the personality cult of one man.
The LEC needs to recall the current chairman and replace him with a person committed to aggressively stating and pursuing the majority view of the MEC. That single step will produce a better union that is closer to the hearts and minds of the pilot group.
Carl
02-13-2009 | 08:07 AM
#10
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Junior half: ACL is exactly right here. I would slap down any such effort to attempt a takeover based on half the seniority list.
The problem at DALPA right now is that the democratic foundation of our union is being perverted by a dictator. If the system was working, all parts of the list would be represented. That's why we have FO reps, Capt reps and reps from all bases. This by definition makes the representation disparate across the pilot group. But here's the problem: none of that matters if everything is run by the personality cult of one man.
The LEC needs to recall the current chairman and replace him with a person committed to aggressively stating and pursuing the majority view of the MEC. That single step will produce a better union that is closer to the hearts and minds of the pilot group.
Carl
The problem at DALPA right now is that the democratic foundation of our union is being perverted by a dictator. If the system was working, all parts of the list would be represented. That's why we have FO reps, Capt reps and reps from all bases. This by definition makes the representation disparate across the pilot group. But here's the problem: none of that matters if everything is run by the personality cult of one man.
The LEC needs to recall the current chairman and replace him with a person committed to aggressively stating and pursuing the majority view of the MEC. That single step will produce a better union that is closer to the hearts and minds of the pilot group.
Carl
The election was a month ago and there was only one candidate. If there was some subversion of the process, couldn't the MEC have found one other person to run? What about you? Sounds like you have some beef with Lee but that doesn't seem to be the case with the people that elected him. The same people that elected him are the same people that would recall him a month later, does that make any sense at all to you? You just sound like a guy with sour grapes about something.
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