fireman0174

Rick was an extremely effective Chairman based on his results. However, he was considered abrasive by many.

IMO, and I was involved with ALPA work for a fair number of years, Rick was the most results orientated M/C that I knew.

However, he had his shortcomings that affected his "popularity". For example, there is NO WAY, based on talents and brains that he should have "lost" the election to P.W. The MEC of that time made a HUGE mistake electing P.W.

I came away from that meeting absolutely disgusted with the MEC.

REAL Pilot

Fire- glad to see your informed posting back. To tag on deficient leadership, I am dismayed at the new FAA boss- Babbitt. My dad was an Eastern pilot with him, and Babbit was the biggest ALPA sell out of all. Another leader only in it for himself. I think most of our labor problems stem from a lack of fortitude from the union. Until the cahunas come out, we will continue to suffer.

Take care

jsled

my 2 cents....

Yes Rick D. was great, but he is long gone. And if UAL would have been smart enough to file a lawsuit in 2000, we would have been in the same boat then. Instead, it took AMR and DAL's sucessful lawsuits before the geniuses at Wacker Dr. decided to follow suit, so to speak.

This TA is NOT a TURD...that is absurd. Has anyone read the executive summary?
*the caps are LOWERED ...95 to 89 and 89 to 87. Lowering the cap 6 hours on the LCO is huge. It is another day off for our fatiqued crews.
*if you don't like the paycut that comes with the 6 less hours of cap, then don't opt for it...it is VOLUNTARY...fly your arse off if you wish
*flex months are GONE....no more 11 day off months for the LCO reserve dudes
*Monthly guarantee INCREASED to 70 hours for lineholders....and yes, the min line build is increased to 70 hours as well. This is the only "get" I see for the company and they are paying for it with the quarantee plus lowering the cap 6 hours for LCO and 2 hours for Mainline.
*The 50 hour trading floor is NOT TOUCHED in this TA....if it works, don't frick with it.
*speaking of trading....trip trading is REINSTATED.

This TA is WAAAAY better for us than it is for them. That doesn't mean that a torked off pilot group won't shoot themselves in the foot and vote no just cuz.

As far as the silence from the MEC...here is an excerpt from an email from my rep....

"The protocol for handling TAs is for the MEC to review the TA for a minimum of 7 days before meeting to discuss, debate, and then vote on it. The Master Chairman either conducts a Special MEC meeting, conference call or waits for the next regularly scheduled MEC meeting. I expect the MEC will deal with this TA at the next regularly scheduled MEC meeting beginning April 20th. The MEC may either accept or reject the TA. Typically, if the TA is rejected, it would never be released to the pilot group. If the TA is accepted, the MEC would decide whether to send it out for membership ratification (MR) or ratify the TA itself."

So expect to hear more on the 20th.

Sonny Crockett

We should be LOWERING the caps to 70-- WE HAVE PEOPLE ON THE STREET!

This will just cause MORE furloughs....

MANPOWER NEGATIVE

jsled

Sonny,
you keep saying that, but you don't explain....please explain to me how LOWERING the cap 6 hours and 2 hours respectively will cause more furloughs. Lowering the cap is not "MANPOWER NEGATIVE", quite the opposite.
Sure the min line build goes up 5 hours, but that just offsets the 6/2 hour cap reduction. What it does do is even out the flying a little better for the lineholders. The 65 hour guys fly a little more and the 95 hour guys fly a little less. As far as lowering the caps to 70...good luck. The biggest hurdle would be the pilot group. I certainly understand your furlough mitigation concerns, but it is hard when management decides to park 100 jets or 22% of the fleet!!! What can you do with that? It sucks.

Sonny Crockett

I would direct your concerns to the LAX LEC, the F/O rep is very well versed in looking at this with a FINE TOOTH COMB, his words to me were the fact this is MAN POWER NEGATIVE.

SELL YOUR SOUL TO GET TRIP TRADING AND SCREW THE JUNIOR FOLK!

No thanks!

jsled

ok. We just disagree. Screwing the junior folk to me would mean to keep the status quo and let them keep flying their forced 95 hour lines. Just because the LAX F/O rep thinks this TA is manpower negative, does not mean it is. What does the ORD rep say? the Den rep? the SSC? common sense? Emotion is a powerful thing and like I said earlier, this group is so torked off, I can see this TA going down. I hope not because I think that would be a mistake.

Dicecal

Thats just it, when has any "management" team ever done anything so drastic as this? And where are they gonna make up the flying? RJs and the Air Lingus thing..what is the union doing to protect our jobs? We are now as bad as USAir..guys with 10 years on the property being furloughed....the Union needs to stop this "man power neutral" mantra the company is spewing and do sometning to save jobs. Are you job hunting right now? It's bleak dude. And for those still on the list..going backwards and losing pay and positions...we should not accept this! Glenn Titlon has to go!

fireman0174

Plastic palace did indeed consider a lawsuit. I'm pretty certain that the decision to not seek it was one of the factors in Goodwin getting the boot. It apparently created quite a split in the senior management ranks.

contrail67

It just seems that in the past...after 9/11 there were airlines that lowered the max to 70 hours to save people from getting furloughed....not even discussed at UAL??? What about early outs??...any word if that is being discussed anymore? The combination would probably eliminate any furloughs.