I corrected it. I was talking to Slowplay. Sorry.

After reading through 9 pages of posts, nowhere do I see how Pinnacle employees will benefit/not benefit from the newly combined pass travel benefits. Anyone have any scoop on this? Nothing on the 9E employee website.

From what I gathered, Comair and the DCI carriers (wholly AND non-wholly owned??) will now board after mainline DL on mainline metal?

The NWA call-in-honest policy is very liberal. We have a specific phone number to call. The person that answers the phone only deals with call-in-honest. I have heard of pilots only leaving themselves one flight, then realizing they are not going go get on when they get there, calling call-in-honest and getting space positive on their first and only flight. I've never been denied using it, but I've always called for my back-up. It is actually a great policy that makes commuting fairly stress free.

It states in our flier that we will adopt NWA's policy of equal boarding priority on DCI except SW, and EV. Guess that means you too. We go ahead of everyone on mainline flights.

I read through the 9 page memo from Delta. While I am happy we here at SKW get to go first on our own aircraft while other DCI carriers don't I don't get it? What makes us Acey and SKW pilots so special?

My guess is a BK era contract.

Guess you guys did not agree. Some say it is done, but other do not. I guess I will do a little digging and see what I can find out tomorrow.

maybe the DAL-N guys can make some progress in this area, and I would love it if that happens...but not only has the company been reluctant to embrace commuters, the old head Capts I have met or spoken with are the same way....everything from "I dont want to lose a seat/pass privelege to a junior guy trying to get to work" to...."...commuting is a choice...move to ATL". Don't expect any support except from the junior DAL guys.

I know I sometimes have difficulty with reading comprehension. I think this is pretty clear:

You've got quite a few other choice quotes in your nearly 3000 posts for your fellow pilots. Where's the equal time for your buddies in management?:rolleyes:

You could always man up, acknowledge the bias (you know, the honesty and integrity thing...) and then I could move on!;) As just about everything you posted about the non-rev policy in this thread is incorrect, it might not hurt your anonymous pseudonym's cred to admit that "you were wrong."

This is a very cost effective program, plus combine it with the ability to book a jump seat 10 1/2 days(no restrictions on going or coming to work) in advance, it works very well...never have heard a complaint from any one losing a seat. Sometimes commuting is not a choice when the base or aircraft move.

What do you want me to say about them? Flt Ops is flight ops, overall very little control over the company. As for the money guys. This era is better than the last. I still hold judgment though. Don't trust certain people from Ford and Harris at all. Hate the way they have killed our health care bennies. Hated the way they used 1113C. I could go on.
I will give you that I was a little to harsh with the quote you selected. Still a little bitter over a conversation I had about the very subject a year or so ago. So yes, I was incorrect for doing that. I should have worded it differently.

As for it not being something we as a union have direct control over, how is that incorrect?

I know you think that I have it in for DALPA. You are incorrect. There are things I agree with and things I do not. I have used the approved ways afforded all ALPA members in good standing through the bylaws to voice this.

I hope I have been forgiven for my sins to SLOWPLAY :D

The reason ACEY and Skyw are different is that we wouldn't put up with it....If mainline gets priority on us...it will be a cold day in He!! before you mainline folks get a jumpseat on ACEY...probably the same on Skywest....

We either go DOH on each other....or we get priority on our own aircraft...You folks don't get to have it both ways...

NWA call in honest
 

So, are you saying that we have already adopted this program? If so where is it documented?

Thanks
Lobo

Never said that. The question was asked what NWA's program was. The key word is WAS. We DID NOT adopt their program.

Just proving another point Joe. I think you were one of the loudest voices the last time we went at this. Right after they bought us and DAL was entering CH 11.

Actually I believe its this way because the priority was written into the code share contracts so Delta can't change it. At the other airlines Delta owns the seats so they can do it any way they choose if its not in the contract. The jumpseat war comment is interesting. I guess some people will never get the purpose of the jumpseat and the rules regarding its use and how hard some worked to restore the jumpseat after 11 Sep when the FAA planned to kill it forever.

Jumpseats should never be a political ploy. Joe you need to grow up.

Sailing is correct.

When ASA was bought it had its own code and use to award PS ASA travel to its employees. Delta bought that code when they bought ASA. Delta kept that code when they sold ASA, but the vestiges of ASA's old code and pass policy remained. SkyWest just did a "me too" since management gives them anything ALPA has to keep the "student council" in "power" and avoid a real collective bargaining agent on the SKYW property.

You got me laughing when you said SkyWest. :D

It must be frustrating to keep calling jumpseat jihads just to have the unfaithful continue to allow the infidels a seat on an airplane going home after a 9 day international trip. Maybe next time ....

Fortunately your new 90 seaters are never weight limited because they have 14 passengers missing. Great airplane for jumpseating :)

One of Delta managements first mistakes What a shame. I like stress.

Yes, I'm guilty of PWD in Narita.

Sigh,
Ferd

Jumpseat I can understand, but pass travel is different. The mainline is still buying all the seats, therefore a mainline employee should travel higher.

Joe,

Here is the issue. When a passenger can go to a ASA website, ticket office, ticket counter and buy a ticket that is written on ASA. The flight is offered in CRS as ASA code and ASA takes all of the risk, scheduling etc for the flight then perhaps you might have some say in what happens in the back of your airplane. Otherwise you are a hired gun to carry the passengers that DL tells you carry, when to carry them and where to land them. It is not your option as to what happens to the boarding priority when someone else owns ALL of the seats in the cabin.

You want to start a jumpseat war? Knock yourself out. In fact you might want to practice the speach, you will give the jumpseaters, in the mirror in the Motel 6 on your next layover. Make it all Col. Jessup-ey if you wish. The whole, "you need me on the jet, you want me on the jet" thing. I am sure DAL management is concerned about what you have to say about this issue.

L

Nobody at ASA is talking about a jumpseat war except Joe.

What we did threaten, and still intend to carry out, it failing to "work the numbers" on weight limited flights. There are certain things we can do like call the dispatcher and drop contingency fuel, make liberal kid counts, etc. to accommodate non-revs.

If we were to lose non-rev priority on our own flights, we really wouldn't be motivated to do such things anymore. A lot of mainline pilots commute to work on 50 seaters out of Florida. These tend to be the most weight limited flights. As it turns out, DAL "let" us keep priority on our own flights.

Another mature action...... When are you guys going to realize it is DAL not pilots that make the pass rules? I hope you grow up someday.

John -- If you're company is selling the tickets then by all means you should have priority on your own flights. But when Delta mainline is buying all your seats then that is different isn't it??? Ben

Hope for all you want. Guess I touched a nerve because you know it works. We managed to keep priority on our own metal. This has nothing to do with growing up, it has to do with standing up to a bully who wants to take something away from us because of a paperwork exercise we weren't party to.

But we do have priority on our own flights. And it's going to stay that way.

I hate the mainline attitude of what's mine is mine and what's yours is mine. We at ASA used to have DOH on mainline. I most likely would bump you on a mainline flight if it were still that way. We (the pilot group) did not ask to be bought by Delta, lose our code, then be tossed aside and sold (or loaned if ACL65 is correct) to SkyWest. So you all can stop with the "we own all your seats, nyah, nyah crap. The situation is not as simple as some of you make it out to be, and you get what you negotiate, not what you deserve.

No nerve here as I don't do Florida..... How is hurting your fellow pilots standing up to a bully? My children would never be allowed to play the game of "if you don't play by my rules I am taking my ball and going home" yet this is exactly what you are acting like, hence the maturity remark. Ever hear the phrase you catch more flies with honey than vinegar?

So not helping fellow pilots is negotiating......? Looking at your statement you are made at your management yet you decide that mainline DAL pilots should be punished, why?

It's the opposite. We had DOH on everything, and mainline took their ball and went home.

I blame the pilots because DALPA has been pushing for this ever since we got DOH when Delta bought us.

So you view us as "children". that's nice.

As a FNWA pilot I wouldn't expect you to know about any of this, but it sure doesn't seem to keep you from offering an opinion. Get the facts.

The facts are that you are mad so you intend to take it out on fellow pilots..... As I said before very mature.

You don't get it. I'm not mad, because we got exactly what we were asking for... priority on our own metal. There's really nothing to be mad about. Unless you're a mainline pilot getting bumped by an ASA newhire on an ASA flight.

John,

How much of the flying that ASA does is first generation flying pioneered by ASA?

You indicate that you did not want to be bought by DL. What would the career prognosis be at ASA without the DL code attached to its flying? Since flying at the regionals is easily replaced by the next lowest bidder it would stand to reason that had not ASA accepted the DL code they would have gone the way of the dodo bird.

Like it or not DL owns every seat on the ASA airplane. Why shouldn't they be allowed to do with those seats as they wish? If I hire a limo to take me from my house to the airport should I expect to be bumped out of my ride to work for the driver to take his kids to school?

When ASA/ Skywest and others start selling tickets on their own flights then I would think you would have some say over how the seats are managed. And when you start that service don't forget to remember ACA/Flyi and Express jet branded service.

L

This is more of the typical mainline superiority complex. I have no response except we got what we wanted. Nothing else to debate. If you think you can get DOH priority on ASA flights, without reciprocating, go for it. There's a reason you don't have it, the reasons I discussed earlier.

Refusing to do everything possible to get a jumpseater on the aircraft is in fact a jumpseat war.

DAL doesn't have it YET. You seem to believe that ASA and Skyw will not fall under this at some point in the future. When is the next round of bids for codeshare agreements coming due? Wonder when DL will send ASA away in the future cutbacks in RJ flying? You may well wind up with priority on ASA flights. Just that ASA will have no flights to operate.

It is not a superiority complex but a realization that be it not for the DL code many of the RJ operators would not exist. This is true for all of the feeder operators for all of the mainline carriers. 50 seat RJ's have proven to be extremely unprofitable and perhaps the mainline carriers are now realizing the cost associated with these operators is not going to produce profits. Reducing and eliminating the express partners will hopefully put more mainline workers back on the job, reduce airport congestion and ATC delays, fuel consumption and getting all the employees on the same page. Having hired help with no ties to the brand produces spotty if not shotty service. ASA has held some high honors among poor service and reliability in the past and if DL can replace that flying to its benefit then I think they will.

Perhaps ASA should start its own service and see what it is like to operate an entire airline. Versus just putting airplanes and crews in a position for DL to fill them, which at times seems almost impossible.

L

You could have just said "blah, blah, blah, threat, threat, I'm better than you, then beat your chest".

You guys are unbelievable. You act as if line pilots have ANY say in management decisions. You don't. So why not just shut up and fly the planes?

We don't care what a lowly Delta pilot who has absolutely no control over his destiny (much less mine) cares about our operation. Rant all you want. ASA isn't going anywhere and neither is our priority on ASA planes.

You are a blowhard, nothing more nothing less. Blah, blah, blah. You got called to the carpet over where you commute from a while back, and slithered away back under your rock. Now you're back for this gem. ASA is not immune, and the agreement will be done over at ASA as well as skywest. DOH on asa/skywest metal, and s3c on Delta. It's coming, bank on it.

I got called on nothing. I live in ATL and don't commute! I do go to Michigan a lot to visit family. Your bring this up (again) is nothing but a red herring that distracts from the original debate topic.

So let's see, you made a personal attack, threw out a red herring, then reiterated what someone else said, with no documentation to back it up. In essence you offered your opinion. Looks like JP 3-0 on you.

As I said, our pass priority on ASA is NOT changing. SkyWest management has a contract with DAL over it. We got it because we fought for it. It isn't going anywhere, regardless of your opinions.

Now like I said, just drive the bus and leave the hard decisions to the guys on the 4th floor.

John,
Read the DCi agreement that SKW signed on behalf of ASA. Lots of good stuff is in there. A lot is blanked out too. Fact remains that DAL owns the rights to each and every seat. It is clearly spelled out. This is not a pilot issue, this is a management issue. We as pilots did not sign the contract. There is no reason to start this type of crap between fellow pilot groups.

As you said this is a 4th floor decision, not an ops decision, but a upper echelon management decision.

Ok, do you think they decided to let us keep priority on our flights through the kindness of their hearts? Or because SkyWest management went to DAL management and told them we were ready to burn the place down?