Pass Benefits at DAL
 

With the inclusion of the FNWA regionals with DOH for passes, the only employee group that did not carry DOH for passes with them are the pilots who interviewed and got hired at NWA and DAL.

Thousands of ASA's rampers and gate agents were "hired" by Delta with their pass benefits. Why not the pilots who were hired by Delta the same month?

With the upcoming displacement of legions of Delta pilots, the effect of Delta's generosity with pass benefits is that Delta pilots are going to find it difficult to commute to and from the cities where they never wanted to work in the first place.

A Mesaba ramper on his way to enjoy dinner and a movie on a 777 out of Atlanta is going to bump ACL 65 on his return from IOE on a DC9. Fair?

Any way to "me too" on the DOH that every other employee group has enjoyed as Delta has enjoyed the benefits of merger synergies?

The ASA rampers to be best of my knowledge for a new hire date for passes and it was June XX, 2007. They kept their YOS for other bennies.

The PWA states you get the benefit now how it is administered. (Em going to be the the words used to retort this. )

Hey Bar, which way do you want it? Regionals with date of hire on your mainline seniority list, or mainline preference for pass riding...?:D Or do you want your CMR date of hire for your Delta pass benefits, so you can bump your classmates at Delta?

Patience, grasshopper. Drums are saying there's a change coming. I'm sure ACL can fill you in on the details when he's finished bumping the Mesaba ramper.;)

Not only that, but there are not "thousands" old ASA rampers and CSAs, more like a few hundred. And those were only the ones who work in Atlanta. The ones who work the outstations are still ASA and travel S3C on mainline flights just like all the other DCI employees, including Comair.

That's what is changing. At least according to NWA pilots on the ALPA board. Full S2's, S3's like anyone else.

Maybe the poster was incorrect. ACL says the F-ASA'ers lost DOH. I remember a different deal.

Funny. Do I get to do that with the dinner and the movie? ;)

Like I said my recollection is this.
There were people in the know at ASA that came to DAL and wanted to make sure they got a hire date prior to the change over in June of 2007. You know this person Bar.
Lets take it one step further. The rampers do not travel like we do and they will not be going to places like MSP, DTW, and MEM. They go to places like MCO, HNL and UVF. ;)
I am not worried about that.

The thing is that OH gets DOH passes at DAL. They had a decision to make. Make OH like EV and then XJ and CPS like EV, or make them like OH and keep their bennies DOH. As much as it may bump some people, it is better for the gander, even if it huts a few geese.

Eh' neither. I'd like them stapled on the list with their logevity for benefits, which would be as close to status quo as could reasonably be expected.

OK, so nobody thinks much of this idea? Back to "Call in Honest" then.

It is in effect status quo as compared to our wholly owned OH. There is a precedence here.

Got my butt handed to me on that idea. Ha Ha.

So, as things are today at DAL do DCI employees travel at a different priority than mainline DAL folks? Are they thinking of changing the non-rev priority of the DCI employees and putting them in order of DOH?

At NWA - XJ, CP, and 9E traveled at at lower priority than mainline employees. IE a NWA employee would travel as a 5 and an XJ, CP, or 9E employee would be a 5W (this is for both mainline flights and their own). At NWA, my DOH was always listed for non-rev purposes.

Maybe I am misunderstanding something here.

OK a few things need to be cleaned up here. First, ASA travels as S3C...period. Secondly Comair travels the same as mainline..S3 with DOH being the separation in the class itself. The RUMOR is that Mesaba and Compass may get what Comair has. If that proves to be true then JetFlyer06 you are about to get Bucked. You once traveled ahead of ALL your regionals. It is rumored that your regionals (unless you are senior) are about to bump you off your own ac.

Lastly....Ac.....um how can I say this politely...that is bucked up thinking. Bucking bar is IMO correct. It was bucked up to let Comair have it and IT IS EVEN MORE BUCKED UP TO START ADDING OTHERS. We should be king on our airplanes and they can be King on theirs.

To all you FNWA folks, I hope you understand what is about to happen to you on your commutes and vacations in Detroit Memphis and Minneapolis. Better speak up now before it gets inked.

That's like saying that our pay scales have a set precedence there is no reason to raise them.

I am not saying it is correct. I am saying that there is a precedence there.
DALPA argues what is in the contract, not what is fair.
When DCI, (EV etc) were going to travel on a S3C on their own aircraft a few years ago, they made it really clear to the mainline management that if it went this way, no non-revs would get on their jet. Not just us but theirs too, just to prove a point. DAL management gave ASA what they wanted. S3 on their jets and S3C on ours. Opposite for us.
It was argued that they were flying on contract for us, and we should get priority on all of the DAL branded flights, but they won out.

I am telling you that, they may change it to benefit us, but it will be a battle royal. DCI's answer was to make everyone travel on DOH. That did not fly either. What we see now at DAL-S is the effects of a truce.
I agree that we should get priority on all flights, but I am also realistic in knowing that DAL will not "buck" DCI.
I could be wrong, but if you watch their feet, and past actions, I hold no hope.
The benefit of Non-reving is in our contract, how it is are prioritized and managed by the company is not. (I was just playing Devil's advocate, and Bar and I had a long phone call about it. There is no want in god's green earth that DALPA is going to expend any energy on travel benefits that effect the junior folks, sadly we both agree with that)

No it is not the same. It is a lot different. It is more like the fact that health insurance is provided for and discussed in the PWA. The rates and how the majority of it is managed is not.

I'm kind of ignoring this thread, because I refuse to believe that the feeders employees would have priority over DAL employees on DAL flights. Will someone tell me to stop making assumptions, read the thread, and that is NOT what is being said. I'm kind of busy and can't real all of these things. :) Thanks.

New K Now

No New you are correct.

It was old management though, I guess that might be a silver lining.

Your kidding right? You don't have to worry about it because Comair has done this for years. Welcome to Delta. The rumor is that they may add Compass and Mesaba to the list for you. How about them apples?

Funny thing is the rumor on that side of the fence is that OH will be brought down to their level.

There has been no change in Delta policy. The wholly owned airlines have always had the same pass policy. The Delta N wholly owned companies will now fall under this policy. ASA is no longer owned by Delta and they ride on S3C passes. In the end this policy benefits Delta employees far more then the employees at the connection carriers since their turnover is a order of magnitude greater then the turnover at the mainline.

I agree with the logic, but tell that to the DAL guy that constantly gets bumped off his commute from HSV or BHM by a DCI pilot who shows up at the last minute.

Well I couldn't take it any more so I made some calls. My rep talked with a CP in length. In the end of the long conversation with him and getting some verification we will just say that what you just said seems to be the case. Thank god and I hope I don't have to eat crow!

This is a great deal for all mainline pilots (not really). In 2 years commuting from San Diego to SLC (mostly mainline) but occasionally on Sky West and even ASA, I sat in the cabin of DCI a grand total of two times! It was about 70% on the jumpseat and about 30% denied the jumpseat. When I say denied the jumpseat it was not by SKy West pilots - the Pilots were always great, it was due mainly to gate agents that did not care or were too busy to get a mainline pilot on. So first of all - we probably will not be seeing many empty seats on DCI, and if we do get an empty seat- good luck getting a gate agent to fill it with your butt.

Scoop

You are wrong on all counts. Again, a sad cheap shot at DALPA and your fellow pilots, while it's the management you serve making the decisions that you rail about.

Pathetic.

Don't worry, though, it's the pilots you take the shots at that are "fixing" the problems that you're complaining about. Were you part of the ASA group that threatened no non-reving after the Delta purchase? :mad:Glad they've almost all turned over....

You are telling me that DALPA will use its negotiating power to fix this?

That is great, but every time I have talked to people about it, I have gotten a wall.

As for being at ASA. I had nothing to do with it.

It was my point that it is a management decision how the passes were allotted, it is contractual that we have them.
It is a management decision to give passes to employee groups as they see fit. Unless we have it spelled out dot for dot and dash for dash in the PWA it is up for interpretation.
Now if it was in the PWA when they wanted to change DCI's boarding priority a few years ago, there would have been nothing that management or DCI could have done. Fact is that they were able to for that very reason.
I am not taking pot shots at DALPA. It is fact.
Are you willing to fight for this change in C2012?

Is it? I only have a copy of the pre-merger contract and nowhere in there can I find where non-revving is a contractual right. If it is, my bad. Don't know if it is in the new contract either. Sure would be nice to have a copy to look.

That's because you only talk to your 4th floor friends.

The drums I'm hearing say you'll approve of the new policy.

As to your later post, reread what you wrote. You took a clear, direct shot at your co-workers. And what you stated isn't fact. It's wrong.

The funny thing is this - Delta/Comair don't think there will be any problems with 500-700 DCI crewmembers commuting between CVG and JFK this summer with the Comair/Mesa base swap.

Do you play the Cow Bell?

Is the "new policy" means less stress as 60% of the Delta pilots can commute without fear when they learn their current seniority will not hold their current equipment and base, it would be a very good thing. Save the Company a lot of last minute sick calls and save Delta pilots commuting OUT of ATL a lot of stress related illnesses.

Agreed, Bar.

Fact is Slow that this subject is one that I have never discussed with these so called 4th floor friends.


I do not see how that is a pot shot, maybe I am dense, but what I have been trying to state, is that it is a benefit not a right.

I would prefer to have priority but DAL manages it. That is not a pot shot at my coworkers. So move on.

And Slow one more thing.

All this slander that you say I am spewing towards DALPA, is exactly what DALPA told me a few years ago, when I was asking some very pointed questions when we were hiring.
It was the arguement used against me, and thus the only reason, I see it being the same arguement used now.
I would love to have this change, and my sarcastic tint me incorrect.
I guess I could go ask some people and see what the new policy is going to be, but I have had other things that have been more pertinent.

Since most of the flights, 100 percent this summer in the case of BHM are RJ's the pilot should be hoping there is no change in this policy since he will get on the flight last if it is changed as you wish. Again this policy if you think it out is in our best interest from the most junior to most senior pilot. Remember that the junior pilot is going to be here a long time. In 3 years he will be senior to 90 percent of the employees at a owned DCI carrier and have priority on their as well as mainline flights. Since DCI is a big part of our domestic system only someone with a really flawed logic process would want to go to the back of the line on those flights. Everything is a tradeoff. In this case its a great trade for the mainline. I suspec tthe only policy that some here would be happy with is that we go first on their flights and first on our flights.

If there's more pertinent things to do, then why are you "adding" to this discussion with things that aren't true? Just to remind you what you wrote:

Originally Posted by acl65pilot http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/im...s/viewpost.gif

Quote:

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Originally Posted by acl65pilot (Post 598832)

I could be wrong, but if you watch their (ALPA's) feet, and past actions, I hold no hope.

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Hey, I get it. It's an anonymous webboard, so you don't have to be accountable for linguistic precision (or anything that you type). But don't crap on your co-workers and then hide.

I am just repeating what ALPA told me when I asked about the bennies.

I just did not make this crap up on my own.

I also stated in my second quote that, I could be wrong. Alas an opening. As previously stated, I am using words spoken to me in the first person to come up with this stance. I did not pull it out of thin air, and furthermore, it is not a rip on ALPA.

I was told that we are afforded this as a benefit, but we can not dictate how it is managed at the current time. I then asked if we would spell out the level of benefits in a future contract, and was basically told no. It is not worth the time.
Again, not my words.

I will give you though that I should have read my last quote through and spell checked. I did not.

I liked what we have now on DAL, but something a little different on DCI.

And 90% is an over exaggeration.

Not even close at Mesaba and Comair. Maybe in 10 years you would be right. Not even close at 3. I had ten at Mesaba, I left at the 25 percentile, and that was just pilots! It takes ten years at Comair just to hold 200 CA. So that means 10 years doesn't even break 50%!

All very true for pilots. A airline however actually has other employees besides pilots. The turnover in other areas is huge. Even at mainline Delta the average ramper at JFK works 6 months! The turnover in rampers, janitors, agents, ect... is very high.

And who says this is the choice we have, and what leads you down this line of reasoning?