USAPA Guilty of DFR
05-13-2009, 10:02 AM
#3
Banned
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,240
It took the jury only one hour to reach the verdict, thats how slimy the east side is.
If there is any doubt further doubt as to the character of the east pilots chew on this:
A majority of the east pilots voted to withhold union furlough benefits from west pilots in good standing, that's right only east furloughed pilots receive union furlough benefits. BTW is there any airline pilot in this country that can still defend the east pilots?
If there is any doubt further doubt as to the character of the east pilots chew on this:
A majority of the east pilots voted to withhold union furlough benefits from west pilots in good standing, that's right only east furloughed pilots receive union furlough benefits. BTW is there any airline pilot in this country that can still defend the east pilots?
05-13-2009, 10:06 AM
#4
Line Holder
Joined APC: Apr 2007
Posts: 46
Originally Posted by cactiboss
It took the jury only one hour to reach the verdict, thats how slimy the east side is.
If there is any doubt further doubt as to the character of the east pilots chew on this:
A majority of the east pilots voted to withhold union furlough benefits from west pilots in good standing, that's right only east furloughed pilots receive union furlough benefits. BTW is there any airline pilot in this country that can still defend the east pilots?
If there is any doubt further doubt as to the character of the east pilots chew on this:
A majority of the east pilots voted to withhold union furlough benefits from west pilots in good standing, that's right only east furloughed pilots receive union furlough benefits. BTW is there any airline pilot in this country that can still defend the east pilots?
05-13-2009, 10:27 AM
#6
Line Holder
Thread Starter
Joined APC: Aug 2007
Posts: 65
Originally Posted by cactiboss
Yes it's true, it was part of a re running of the election for president, why did they have to re run the election? because they illegally barred a west pilot from running.
Idiots !!!
05-13-2009, 11:05 AM
#7
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 1,619
One of the interesting things in the last few years has been the testing of various "legal theories" by the loudest and most "aggressive" pilots. We saw in the numerous bankruptcies how these supposed tough guy tactics got body slammed when they were taken off the web boards and then brought into the real world.
We now have seen another set of "legal theories" from the East pilots, dissatisfied with the "wimpy" ALPA, that have been put to the test and failed miserably.
Maybe now, we can move past these "tough guy" arguments and get down to real strategies that can move us forward. The internet is nice in that it lets everyone publish their ideas, but it can be bad if only a small range of opinions gets expressed. What you find is the "aggressive" voice often takes over the boards while the more thoughtful responses get lost in the bickering and name calling. At times, it can then appear that the "aggressive" voice is the majority or even the only opinion.
I think that it is important for a variety of voices to be heard in all of these forums. It is tough to sit out the personal attacks when you are called wimpy, or lacking testicles, or called a company stooge by these other pilots that have found that their intimidation tactics often work.
As a profession, we have gotten kicked around a lot lately, and if we are going to recover, it is going to be through solid business sense and steady progress back to where we should be. I hope that at some time, we can drown out the crowd that is that too willing to use the pilot group as a test bed for their cockamamie theories.
As for the LCC pilots, all of them, they need to really sit down and figure out what they want to do. The easiest course will be to fall back into the yelling mode and go back to the same tired arguments and insults that have filled the last three years.
I hope that there are some leaders on both sides, leaders that have to courage to stand up and say "Enough". Leaders that have the courage to turn the other cheek and do what is right and not what is convenient. It is easy for each side to continue the hatred and bickering and come back to their side and preach their grievances both real and imagined. It is hard to say, "what's done is done" let's move forward.
The Nicolau list is the seniority list at LCC. The East pilots have to accept that. The West pilots should realize that it might be useful to make some nod to the extreme hardships and bad luck that have been endured by the East pilots as their company was run into the ground by incompetent management. Making some concessions to help their pilots recover a little is not weakness, it is strength of character and the right thing to do. Everyone should be looking to get their contract up to industry standard if not industry leading.
Whether it is USAPA or ALPA or any other union, there needs to be real leaders from both sides to drown out the loudest voices demanding retribution after retribution. You will be insulted and attacked on the web boards but in the end you will live with either doing the right thing or doing the wrong thing. All my prayers are going with ALL LCC pilots and I hope they can move forward. Good luck.
We now have seen another set of "legal theories" from the East pilots, dissatisfied with the "wimpy" ALPA, that have been put to the test and failed miserably.
Maybe now, we can move past these "tough guy" arguments and get down to real strategies that can move us forward. The internet is nice in that it lets everyone publish their ideas, but it can be bad if only a small range of opinions gets expressed. What you find is the "aggressive" voice often takes over the boards while the more thoughtful responses get lost in the bickering and name calling. At times, it can then appear that the "aggressive" voice is the majority or even the only opinion.
I think that it is important for a variety of voices to be heard in all of these forums. It is tough to sit out the personal attacks when you are called wimpy, or lacking testicles, or called a company stooge by these other pilots that have found that their intimidation tactics often work.
As a profession, we have gotten kicked around a lot lately, and if we are going to recover, it is going to be through solid business sense and steady progress back to where we should be. I hope that at some time, we can drown out the crowd that is that too willing to use the pilot group as a test bed for their cockamamie theories.
As for the LCC pilots, all of them, they need to really sit down and figure out what they want to do. The easiest course will be to fall back into the yelling mode and go back to the same tired arguments and insults that have filled the last three years.
I hope that there are some leaders on both sides, leaders that have to courage to stand up and say "Enough". Leaders that have the courage to turn the other cheek and do what is right and not what is convenient. It is easy for each side to continue the hatred and bickering and come back to their side and preach their grievances both real and imagined. It is hard to say, "what's done is done" let's move forward.
The Nicolau list is the seniority list at LCC. The East pilots have to accept that. The West pilots should realize that it might be useful to make some nod to the extreme hardships and bad luck that have been endured by the East pilots as their company was run into the ground by incompetent management. Making some concessions to help their pilots recover a little is not weakness, it is strength of character and the right thing to do. Everyone should be looking to get their contract up to industry standard if not industry leading.
Whether it is USAPA or ALPA or any other union, there needs to be real leaders from both sides to drown out the loudest voices demanding retribution after retribution. You will be insulted and attacked on the web boards but in the end you will live with either doing the right thing or doing the wrong thing. All my prayers are going with ALL LCC pilots and I hope they can move forward. Good luck.
05-13-2009, 11:16 AM
#8
Banned
Joined APC: Apr 2008
Posts: 3,240
Nice thought alfa, but here is the mentality we are dealing with:
> > > EMAIL TEMPLATE < < < The Addington case ended today with the jury deciding that USAPA failed in its duty to fairly represent all of its members. Today’s decision, while disappointing, was not unexpected. Since we were required to argue our case with limited time and evidence and were hamstrung by questionable rulings and incorrect instructions, USAPA, quite literally, fought this battle with both hands tied behind its back. Given the circumstances, we have a hard time accepting the idea that we encountered truly unbiased impartiality. Although this is a setback, we are very confident that the errors of law we encountered in this venue will be corrected.
The 9th Circuit Court of Appeals and, if necessary, the United States Supreme Court, are the appropriate places for the law to be truly vetted. While USAPA would have, of course, preferred to prevail in the current setting (allowing the pilot group to come together and work towards an improved contract), we fully expected and planned for this contingency. Again, given the facts of law, we are very confident of our ability to prevail eventually, in proving the absolute right of a union to bargain over the complete terms of its members’ working agreement. Having so planned, our legal team is already working on an expedited appeal and stay of any proposed injunctive relief.
Please watch your email and the USAPA Web site for further updates, which will come shortly. In the meantime, we urge all pilots to continue to show the utmost professionalism, treating your fellow pilots with courtesy and respect.
> > > EMAIL TEMPLATE < < < The Addington case ended today with the jury deciding that USAPA failed in its duty to fairly represent all of its members. Today’s decision, while disappointing, was not unexpected. Since we were required to argue our case with limited time and evidence and were hamstrung by questionable rulings and incorrect instructions, USAPA, quite literally, fought this battle with both hands tied behind its back. Given the circumstances, we have a hard time accepting the idea that we encountered truly unbiased impartiality. Although this is a setback, we are very confident that the errors of law we encountered in this venue will be corrected.
The 9th Circuit Court of Appeals and, if necessary, the United States Supreme Court, are the appropriate places for the law to be truly vetted. While USAPA would have, of course, preferred to prevail in the current setting (allowing the pilot group to come together and work towards an improved contract), we fully expected and planned for this contingency. Again, given the facts of law, we are very confident of our ability to prevail eventually, in proving the absolute right of a union to bargain over the complete terms of its members’ working agreement. Having so planned, our legal team is already working on an expedited appeal and stay of any proposed injunctive relief.
Please watch your email and the USAPA Web site for further updates, which will come shortly. In the meantime, we urge all pilots to continue to show the utmost professionalism, treating your fellow pilots with courtesy and respect.
05-13-2009, 11:21 AM
#9
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jun 2008
Position: Gave up. Staying retired.
Posts: 111
Originally Posted by cactiboss
Nice thought alfa, but here is the mentality we are dealing with:
> > > EMAIL TEMPLATE < < < The Addington case ended today with the jury deciding that USAPA failed in its duty to fairly represent all of its members. Today’s decision, while disappointing, was not unexpected. Since we were required to argue our case with limited time and evidence and were hamstrung by questionable rulings and incorrect instructions, USAPA, quite literally, fought this battle with both hands tied behind its back. Given the circumstances, we have a hard time accepting the idea that we encountered truly unbiased impartiality. Although this is a setback, we are very confident that the errors of law we encountered in this venue will be corrected.
The 9th Circuit Court of Appeals and, if necessary, the United States Supreme Court, are the appropriate places for the law to be truly vetted. While USAPA would have, of course, preferred to prevail in the current setting (allowing the pilot group to come together and work towards an improved contract), we fully expected and planned for this contingency. Again, given the facts of law, we are very confident of our ability to prevail eventually, in proving the absolute right of a union to bargain over the complete terms of its members’ working agreement. Having so planned, our legal team is already working on an expedited appeal and stay of any proposed injunctive relief.
Please watch your email and the USAPA Web site for further updates, which will come shortly. In the meantime, we urge all pilots to continue to show the utmost professionalism, treating your fellow pilots with courtesy and respect.
> > > EMAIL TEMPLATE < < < The Addington case ended today with the jury deciding that USAPA failed in its duty to fairly represent all of its members. Today’s decision, while disappointing, was not unexpected. Since we were required to argue our case with limited time and evidence and were hamstrung by questionable rulings and incorrect instructions, USAPA, quite literally, fought this battle with both hands tied behind its back. Given the circumstances, we have a hard time accepting the idea that we encountered truly unbiased impartiality. Although this is a setback, we are very confident that the errors of law we encountered in this venue will be corrected.
The 9th Circuit Court of Appeals and, if necessary, the United States Supreme Court, are the appropriate places for the law to be truly vetted. While USAPA would have, of course, preferred to prevail in the current setting (allowing the pilot group to come together and work towards an improved contract), we fully expected and planned for this contingency. Again, given the facts of law, we are very confident of our ability to prevail eventually, in proving the absolute right of a union to bargain over the complete terms of its members’ working agreement. Having so planned, our legal team is already working on an expedited appeal and stay of any proposed injunctive relief.
Please watch your email and the USAPA Web site for further updates, which will come shortly. In the meantime, we urge all pilots to continue to show the utmost professionalism, treating your fellow pilots with courtesy and respect.
Guess the foot wound is already healing, and more bullets are available.
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