tpersuit

Don't put words in my mouth. I never said that the 517 East guys got screwed. I said they got a good deal, but must have saw their junior pilots got screwed. Usually in this industry the senior pilots will screw the junior ones. This is where I start to wonder if the award was fair. Those senior East pilots have nothing to lose here. So I keep asking why they think the award was bad.

So you're telling me that a pilot hired in the late 80's early 90's should be put behind a pilot hired in the 2000's?
Sounds like a screw job to me. Any other trade puts time of service above others. Electricians, etc, so why would a 1989 new hire be put behind a 2001 hire? I have no friends on either side of this, so take this as an outside look. I have nothing to gain from any outcome.

Cactusone

Your understanding of the appeal process is lacking.

Free Bird

What you're advocating is not consistent with ALPA's guidelines for a merger. Both US and AMWest were ALPA. They Both agreed to binding arbitration. The system isn't perfect, but it's what all agreed to.

Pineapple Guy

Welcome to the world of individual airline seniority systems. It's far from perfect, but its what we all signed up for. And until we can mutually agree on a better way, that's how it is done. Your longevity (time of service) is irrelevant when seniority systems are merged, as has been proven countless times in countless mergers.

Binding arbitration. Both sides agreed to it. Every independent review has deemed the result fair.

PG

alfaromeo

There is one primary reason why date of hire works for most other professions: that is how they get paid. If you are on a longevity pay scale then date of hire works for seniority.

That is not how pilots get paid. If you look at the East's own pay scale you will see my point. An Embraer 190 first officer tops out at $52 per hour. An Airbus 330 captain makes $160 per hour, a difference of $108 per hour. A 2 year A-330 captain makes $146 per hour, a difference of $16.

So the East pilots recognize that status and category equates to a change of $108 per hour and longevity equates to $16 per hour. THAT IS THEIR OWN PAY SCALE. Status and category makes much more sense as an integration methodology rather than date of hire. USAPA even recognizes the problem with date of hire and they had to try to come up with a bunch of conditions and restrictions to try to pound this square seniority list into a round hole. As Northwest found in the merger with Republic, these conditions and restrictions never properly anticipate the future leading to repeated internal arbitrations which created a toxic atmosphere.

If pilots went to a pure longevity based pay scale, then date of hire would work. That is not how pilots get paid. Remember, when US Airways bought the Trump Shuttle, the US Airways pilots argued for a status and category integration for this very reason. Their conversion to date of hire occurred about the same time they became the oldest legacy carrier pilot group. Hardly a profile in courage.

JetMonkey

You're looking those pilot's DOH vs. where they each fell on their respective seniority lists. Those late 80's and early 90's guys were on the bottom of THEIR list. Same thing at AWA with pilots hired in the 2000's. Therefore, they each should be placed at the same relative position on the NEW list. Nobody gains anything, nobody loses anything. That's what's fair and Nicalou knew that, so that's what he did.

eaglefly

I think the only way Parker can save this airline is to admit it was a mistake to save US Air, which was sure to flop dead and find a way to seperate the carriers and cut U loose.

mesasurvivor

Hey Sully......

Next time your daughter asks you what the meaning of "integrity" is, just point over to the America West Pilots group and say "that's it right there!".

They have shown nothing but integrity, class and professionalism despite being completely abandoned by a "union" formed by persons of NO integrity who would not stand by their legal agreement of binding arbitration. Total scum!

Congratulations to the West Pilots Group! You truly persevered over a rotten and ruthless bunch of thugs!

To the East Coast guys....you boys booted ALPA out because you didnt like the list & would not honor (note: the word "honor" is probably unfamiliar to the Easties!) your agreement to live with the Nicolau award. Now...without your one and only issue, you are stuck with a joke of a "union" with no leadership, no clout, a potentially huge award for actual and punative damages pending & nearly half (that was before the loss of the lawsuit...probably 80% now) of your "membership" who disavows even belonging. Wonder how long it will take for another vote to go back to ALPA.

Again...congrats to the West Pilots. This is a great day for your group and for our entire profession. YOU HAVE INTEGRITY!

eaglefly

My bet says USAPA declares bankruptcy and liquidates before they have to further ram their membership in the buttocks for more cash to continue this mockery.............or pay for its current embarrassing faliure.

Supreme Court ?

GMAFB..........like they'd waste their time with this crap. They'll kick it back to Judge Judy where it belongs.

all4114all

Well not quite a complete assessment of the West.

The Rico part of the suit below was not allowed, but the Judge said that a criminal case can be filed, it is presently on hold.

http://www.planebusiness.com/buzz/awausapa.pdf