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-   -   AMR guy 'DUI'? (https://www.airlinepilotforums.com/major/40238-amr-guy-dui.html)

acl65pilot 05-21-2009 05:38 AM

If there are 12 DUI's there is no way he got past number three without some sort of FAA mandated treatment. It depends on how far apart they are, but the FAA generally gives you one and the second one puts you in an assessment to see if you need treatment. Now if he has kept all of this private and away from APA, AMR and the FAA, yes, he is gone, way gone. Probably will have criminal charges pressed as well.
Remember that falsifying your FAA medical app is a federal offense.

Bucking Bar 05-21-2009 05:56 AM

Last week one of the other guests at the B&B my wife and I stayed at was the head of the airport Police at one of the 5 largest airports in the US. He said TSA gets "atta boys" and recognition for promotion for busting drunk pilots and locating drugs.

He complained that most "drunk" pilots aren't drunk, just the effects of weird sleep hours and 04:30 duty ins. He also complained that the TSA wants them to arrest passengers for very small amounts of drugs, like personal use marijuana, which is a huge problem for them due to the amount of paperwork and control that goes into the Police taking possession of the contraband and handling a drug arrest. It said it was something like 4 hours of work for the simple guy with a joint arrest.

He had refused to arrest a "drunk pilot" at Security thinking the pilot had not done anything until he sat down at the controls and physically took control of the jet. Another Officer arrested the pilot and that pilot is now in jail for ten years.

Pilots should have the Federal rules enforced as applicable to their Certificate, but what bothers me is the Federal rules are enforced, THEN the pilot is prosecuted under State law. IMHO this is being prosecuted twice for the same crime, which is a violation of the Constitution and basic Civil Rights in places as freedom loving as India and Mexico. However in the goold ol' US of A our 5th Amendment is ignored under a principle called "separate sovereigns" which means the State and the Federal government are separate sovereign powers with independent Courts and Jurisdiction.

Now the Federal and State government did not seek to prosecute Timothy McVeigh for blowing up a building and killing at least eight people, but let some guy show up for work without having fully metabolized the previous night's action and the Federal Government will take immediate action without due process (as is allowed with our Certificates on an emergency basis) AND the State and or County and or City Governments will pile on with violation of whatever State and Local Ordinances they have to pursue.

The cases are "sexy" and get some Press coverage while being easy to Prosecute. A junior loser D.A. dreams of opportunities like destroying any one of our careers and families.

The "be careful out there" goes double for pilots, because pilots are targeted and will be prosecuted, once, then again, then again ... .

Tinpusher007 05-21-2009 06:16 AM


Originally Posted by Spanky189 (Post 614292)
Pilot held in cockpit is ‘4 times drink limit’ | The Sun |News

By ANTHONY FRANCE

Published: Today
ARMED cops nicked a boozy pilot at Heathrow yesterday as he was about to take off for Chicago with 300 passengers.
Captain Joseph Crites, 57, was allegedly four times the limit when he was held trying to enter the cockpit of his American Airlines Boeing 777.

AA 777's don't carry 300 pax. Sorry...couldn't resist! Another one bites the dust I guess. We are supposed to have good decision-making skills, right?

RichieAshburn 05-21-2009 06:16 AM


Originally Posted by Bucking Bar (Post 614369)
Last week one of the other guests at the B&B my wife and I stayed at was the head of the airport Police at one of the 5 largest airports in the US. He said TSA gets "atta boys" and recognition for promotion for busting drunk pilots and locating drugs.

He complained that most "drunk" pilots aren't drunk, just the effects of weird sleep hours and 04:30 duty ins. He also complained that the TSA wants them to arrest passengers for very small amounts of drugs, like personal use marijuana, which is a huge problem for them due to the amount of paperwork and control that goes into the Police taking possession of the contraband and handling a drug arrest. It said it was something like 4 hours of work for the simple guy with a joint arrest.

He had refused to arrest a "drunk pilot" at Security thinking the pilot had not done anything until he sat down at the controls and physically took control of the jet. Another Officer arrested the pilot and that pilot is now in jail for ten years.

Pilots should have the Federal rules enforced as applicable to their Certificate, but what bothers me is the Federal rules are enforced, THEN the pilot is prosecuted under State law. IMHO this is being prosecuted twice for the same crime, which is a violation of the Constitution and basic Civil Rights in places as freedom loving as India and Mexico. However in the goold ol' US of A our 5th Amendment is ignored under a principle called "separate sovereigns" which means the State and the Federal government are separate sovereign powers with independent Courts and Jurisdiction.

Now the Federal and State government did not seek to prosecute Timothy McVeigh for blowing up a building and killing at least eight people, but let some guy show up for work without having fully metabolized the previous night's action and the Federal Government will take immediate action without due process (as is allowed with our Certificates on an emergency basis) AND the State and or County and or City Governments will pile on with violation of whatever State and Local Ordinances they have to pursue.

The cases are "sexy" and get some Press coverage while being easy to Prosecute. A junior loser D.A. dreams of opportunities like destroying any one of our careers and families.

The "be careful out there" goes double for pilots, because pilots are targeted and will be prosecuted, once, then again, then again ... .


I understand, and agree with, what I think you intend to say. But, for clarification purposes; The OK City bombing killed 168 and injured over 800. McVeigh and Terry Nichols were both prosecuted and eventually convicted by the Feds...

acl65pilot 05-21-2009 06:26 AM

The easiest way to make sure you will not get nailed at a checkpoint is not to drink on the road. They bust you, you have nothing to worry about. Demand a blood test.

Tinpusher007 05-21-2009 06:30 AM


Originally Posted by acl65pilot (Post 614387)
The easiest way to make sure you will not get nailed at a checkpoint is not to drink on the road. They bust you, you have nothing to worry about. Demand a blood test.

Good point. I fly with a few guys who say they just don't drink on the road at all. This guy was 4 times the legal limit though. So, if that's in fact, true, than this wasn't a case of simply over-doing it a little.

acl65pilot 05-21-2009 06:34 AM

Problem is he probably went on a bender with the crew, and if the accusations are correct, his liver is mush and could not process it.

I am curious to see what they define as the legal limit in the UK. Here anything above a .02 is a positive test. ( Not the limit just a positive test)

RatherBeFishing 05-21-2009 06:42 AM

I live in Ohio too and this place is turning me into an alcoholic as well. I can't say I blame the guy for drinking so much. This state sucks!! Maybe someday we will get some better bases. :rolleyes:

Scoop 05-21-2009 07:06 AM


Originally Posted by acl65pilot (Post 614387)
The easiest way to make sure you will not get nailed at a checkpoint is not to drink on the road. They bust you, you have nothing to worry about. Demand a blood test.


That is what I did when accused of being under the influence at SEA a couple of years ago. It was a 0600 sign in and some TSA genius reported smelling alcohol on the First Officer. It was a case of mistaken identity - the person that she thought was impaired was actually the Captain, who by the way was a Mormon and did not drink at all. He did however have some kind of fancy garlic pasta dinner the night before and he did reek of garlic. If both of our careers were not in jeopardy from an erroneous accusation it would have been hilarious. It took about three hours to clear it up (did I mention this was the last day of the rotation) as we both demanded to be tested. The DAL gate agent supervisor was super throughout the ordeal and backed us up the whole time.

Be careful guys.

Scoop

groundstop 05-21-2009 08:05 AM


Originally Posted by acl65pilot (Post 614387)
The easiest way to make sure you will not get nailed at a checkpoint is not to drink on the road.

???? I do not understand


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