Congress Just SCREWED you (again)
06-09-2006, 03:28 PM
#22
New boss = Old boss
Joined APC: Mar 2005
Position: Ca B737
Posts: 2,762
This could mean the end to the USA based airline system. The same thing happened to the US shipping industry. Today, ships are based overseas and the crew is primarily South island or third world country citizens. The Officers are Dutch or English and other first worlders (Look I made up a word like GW Bush).
I can imagine an industry where all crew are foreign nationals except the captain. The captain could also be replaced but the airlines may not want an English language challenged captain talking to the pax. For all of our sakes, I hope this takes 30 years to happen. Time will tell.
I can imagine an industry where all crew are foreign nationals except the captain. The captain could also be replaced but the airlines may not want an English language challenged captain talking to the pax. For all of our sakes, I hope this takes 30 years to happen. Time will tell.
06-09-2006, 03:55 PM
#23
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2005
Position: tri current
Posts: 1,485
I agree this legislation will be bad for the U.S. Airline pilot in the long term. The cargo guys are a bit delusional to think that there won't be any outsourcing. All one has to do is look at Cathay Pacific and Dragonair to see that outsourcing from higher paying jobs can and will happen.
Wait a second, Cathay has outsourced their cargo flying to U.S. pilots based in the USA. Those U.S. based pilots earn much less than an "A" or "B" scale Cathay pilot. Same with Dragonair Cargo.
Interesting huh ?
Those sneaky Japanese have outsourced pax flying to U.S. pilots based in Honolulu. Did they do it because they felt bad about Pearl Harbor? No, I think they did it because U.S. pilots are lower cost.
Russian pilots who speak decent English have already left Russia and work for the likes of Korean, Emirates, Vietnam, etc. They make pretty good coin doing so. I doubt they'll sign on at some crap third world airline for lower pay. That is provided the third world airline could get approval from the FAA to fly to the USA.
India and China have such a severe pilot shortage that they are hiring Americans, Europeans, Russian, etc to fly their jets. Average Captain pay in India on the A320 and 737NG is almost exactly what it is at U.S. legacy carriers, $10,000/mo.
So, no the sky is not falling yet.
Just thought I'd interject these points into the discussion.
Typhoonpilot
Wait a second, Cathay has outsourced their cargo flying to U.S. pilots based in the USA. Those U.S. based pilots earn much less than an "A" or "B" scale Cathay pilot. Same with Dragonair Cargo.
Interesting huh ?
Those sneaky Japanese have outsourced pax flying to U.S. pilots based in Honolulu. Did they do it because they felt bad about Pearl Harbor? No, I think they did it because U.S. pilots are lower cost.
Russian pilots who speak decent English have already left Russia and work for the likes of Korean, Emirates, Vietnam, etc. They make pretty good coin doing so. I doubt they'll sign on at some crap third world airline for lower pay. That is provided the third world airline could get approval from the FAA to fly to the USA.
India and China have such a severe pilot shortage that they are hiring Americans, Europeans, Russian, etc to fly their jets. Average Captain pay in India on the A320 and 737NG is almost exactly what it is at U.S. legacy carriers, $10,000/mo.
So, no the sky is not falling yet.
Just thought I'd interject these points into the discussion.
Typhoonpilot
06-09-2006, 04:33 PM
#24
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Mar 2006
Position: A320 capt
Posts: 161
Originally Posted by greedyairlineexec
do not forget that just like you could provide service from shangai to beijing, so can some foreing airline provide service from memphis to lax. you really think Fred won't open a wholly own airline in sri lanka and take away flying from you? he already does it with tradewinds.
you really think most rusian or any 2nd world country pilot gives a crap about scabbibg you out of a job?
this is the begginig of full foreing ownership and cabotage. you willl not have a job if those two scenarios occur. you will go on strike when Fred refuses to give you your flying back and is being done by some foreing entity and it will be a fiasco worse than the eastern one.
browntail, UPS says you will be doing all the intraeurope flying forever and ever and you really believe what those really honest guys running things say??? I tell you what, I can sell you a bridge really cheap and you can charge everyone who uses it. I'm selling it because I want to retire. the bridge is in San Francisco and is called "the golden gate" . is very profitable ,but, like I said, ,I want to retire. only $3mil, it must be a bargain for you since you are making so much money as a UPS piot and will be making so much moore when you get a new contract
you really think most rusian or any 2nd world country pilot gives a crap about scabbibg you out of a job?
this is the begginig of full foreing ownership and cabotage. you willl not have a job if those two scenarios occur. you will go on strike when Fred refuses to give you your flying back and is being done by some foreing entity and it will be a fiasco worse than the eastern one.
browntail, UPS says you will be doing all the intraeurope flying forever and ever and you really believe what those really honest guys running things say??? I tell you what, I can sell you a bridge really cheap and you can charge everyone who uses it. I'm selling it because I want to retire. the bridge is in San Francisco and is called "the golden gate" . is very profitable ,but, like I said, ,I want to retire. only $3mil, it must be a bargain for you since you are making so much money as a UPS piot and will be making so much moore when you get a new contract
there are 14 spelling errors, --can you spot them??
Last edited by Randal; 06-09-2006 at 04:39 PM.
06-09-2006, 04:51 PM
#25
Line Holder
Joined APC: Nov 2005
Position: B757/767 FO
Posts: 40
TP,
you hit the nail on the head with your post. I wouldn't be surprised if it's the American pilots that are the low ballers. Just look at our scumbag regional pay system that somehow makes it okay to fly a 70 pax jet as an FO for $20/hr. We have guys triping over each other to do to boot. You won't see that crap anywhere else in the world. Heck even our Canadian friends start their RJ guys in the high 30's to low 40's. The threat of being replaced by 3rd World pilots is bogus because those countries are short pilots because no one can afford to get their ratings and those jobs are being outsourced to the rest of the world, heck a lot of Brits, Aussies, and Americans are enjoying employement thanks to that shortage. Global investment won't change that fact at all.
xtwapilot
you hit the nail on the head with your post. I wouldn't be surprised if it's the American pilots that are the low ballers. Just look at our scumbag regional pay system that somehow makes it okay to fly a 70 pax jet as an FO for $20/hr. We have guys triping over each other to do to boot. You won't see that crap anywhere else in the world. Heck even our Canadian friends start their RJ guys in the high 30's to low 40's. The threat of being replaced by 3rd World pilots is bogus because those countries are short pilots because no one can afford to get their ratings and those jobs are being outsourced to the rest of the world, heck a lot of Brits, Aussies, and Americans are enjoying employement thanks to that shortage. Global investment won't change that fact at all.
xtwapilot
06-09-2006, 04:54 PM
#26
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Aug 2005
Position: Retired
Posts: 980
Originally Posted by Typhoonpilot
I agree this legislation will be bad for the U.S. Airline pilot in the long term. The cargo guys are a bit delusional to think that there won't be any outsourcing. All one has to do is look at Cathay Pacific and Dragonair to see that outsourcing from higher paying jobs can and will happen.
Wait a second, Cathay has outsourced their cargo flying to U.S. pilots based in the USA. Those U.S. based pilots earn much less than an "A" or "B" scale Cathay pilot. Same with Dragonair Cargo.
Interesting huh ?
Those sneaky Japanese have outsourced pax flying to U.S. pilots based in Honolulu. Did they do it because they felt bad about Pearl Harbor? No, I think they did it because U.S. pilots are lower cost.
Russian pilots who speak decent English have already left Russia and work for the likes of Korean, Emirates, Vietnam, etc. They make pretty good coin doing so. I doubt they'll sign on at some crap third world airline for lower pay. That is provided the third world airline could get approval from the FAA to fly to the USA.
India and China have such a severe pilot shortage that they are hiring Americans, Europeans, Russian, etc to fly their jets. Average Captain pay in India on the A320 and 737NG is almost exactly what it is at U.S. legacy carriers, $10,000/mo.
So, no the sky is not falling yet.
Just thought I'd interject these points into the discussion.
Typhoonpilot
Wait a second, Cathay has outsourced their cargo flying to U.S. pilots based in the USA. Those U.S. based pilots earn much less than an "A" or "B" scale Cathay pilot. Same with Dragonair Cargo.
Interesting huh ?
Those sneaky Japanese have outsourced pax flying to U.S. pilots based in Honolulu. Did they do it because they felt bad about Pearl Harbor? No, I think they did it because U.S. pilots are lower cost.
Russian pilots who speak decent English have already left Russia and work for the likes of Korean, Emirates, Vietnam, etc. They make pretty good coin doing so. I doubt they'll sign on at some crap third world airline for lower pay. That is provided the third world airline could get approval from the FAA to fly to the USA.
India and China have such a severe pilot shortage that they are hiring Americans, Europeans, Russian, etc to fly their jets. Average Captain pay in India on the A320 and 737NG is almost exactly what it is at U.S. legacy carriers, $10,000/mo.
So, no the sky is not falling yet.
Just thought I'd interject these points into the discussion.
Typhoonpilot
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