Legacy Scope Language...
08-22-2009 | 11:51 AM
#1
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Gets Weekends Off
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From: MD-88 F/O
Legacy Scope Language...
Fellow aviators,
I am trying to gather the current legacy carrier's scope language to develop a spreadsheet detailing the current scope limitations. I am not a lawyer and have been called Forrest Gump's long long brother. Therefore, a "SCOPE FOR DUMMIES" type of document would be a great educational tool for the myself and the greater masses to have at their disposal. I may be asking for more than I can possibly handle but any info that y'all may have would be greatly appreciated.
Standing by with a bottle of asprin,
DogWhisperer
"GOT SCOPE?"
I am trying to gather the current legacy carrier's scope language to develop a spreadsheet detailing the current scope limitations. I am not a lawyer and have been called Forrest Gump's long long brother. Therefore, a "SCOPE FOR DUMMIES" type of document would be a great educational tool for the myself and the greater masses to have at their disposal. I may be asking for more than I can possibly handle but any info that y'all may have would be greatly appreciated.
Standing by with a bottle of asprin,
DogWhisperer
"GOT SCOPE?"
Last edited by FDXer; 08-22-2009 at 12:59 PM. Reason: Personal website removed.
08-22-2009 | 02:25 PM
#4
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From: MD-88 F/O
I am one of a group of pilots that believe that there is a lack of understanding of where we are and where we have come from. The issue of scope has become so complicated that many pilots just throw up their hands and say whatever. It is our belief that there is a need for a third party educational campaign to put the facts out in plain language. If you don't know where you stand, how can you prepare for the future? There are aircraft on the horizon that many aren't even aware of. Bombarbier CS series just to name one. It is like when its time to vote for the President. I really don't care which way you vote, just that you are making an educted decision. When the next contract vote come around at my company, I want folks to make decision based on the fact, not one based on, "well, they say that its a good deal, so I guess that I will vote for it."
Dog Whisperer
"GOT SCOPE?"
Dog Whisperer
"GOT SCOPE?"
08-22-2009 | 04:13 PM
#5
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From: Left Seat
Thanks for the quick take, I appreciate that.
In regards to new aircraft on the horizon. It would be best to make sure what has happened in the past doesn't happen again. IE: just because it says regional jet on the side hopefully the big egos of "the professionals" won't disregard it and will fight harder to get the lanes and keep the flying themselves.
I am open for the educating. There is a lot I don't know about.
In regards to new aircraft on the horizon. It would be best to make sure what has happened in the past doesn't happen again. IE: just because it says regional jet on the side hopefully the big egos of "the professionals" won't disregard it and will fight harder to get the lanes and keep the flying themselves.
I am open for the educating. There is a lot I don't know about.
08-22-2009 | 05:03 PM
#6
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I am one of a group of pilots that believe that there is a lack of understanding of where we are and where we have come from. The issue of scope has become so complicated that many pilots just throw up their hands and say whatever. It is our belief that there is a need for a third party educational campaign to put the facts out in plain language. If you don't know where you stand, how can you prepare for the future? .... I really don't care which way you vote, just that you are making an educted decision. When the next contract vote come around at my company, I want folks to make decision based on the fact, not one based on, "well, they say that its a good deal, so I guess that I will vote for it."
Dog Whisperer
"GOT SCOPE?"
Dog Whisperer
"GOT SCOPE?"
Looks to me like an Astroturf campaign with an agenda.
Good luck putting out unbiased, accurate information! I hope your self education process goes well. You might want to get together with the Council 44 guys, as they produced a long history of DAL Scope for the June 44 meeting.
08-22-2009 | 06:18 PM
#7
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From: Guppy Commander
How can someone who admittedly doesn't know industry standards for scope and distributes "scope" items for profit provide an "educational campaign to put the facts out in plain language"?
Looks to me like an Astroturf campaign with an agenda.
Good luck putting out unbiased, accurate information! I hope your self education process goes well. You might want to get together with the Council 44 guys, as they produced a long history of DAL Scope for the June 44 meeting.
Looks to me like an Astroturf campaign with an agenda.
Good luck putting out unbiased, accurate information! I hope your self education process goes well. You might want to get together with the Council 44 guys, as they produced a long history of DAL Scope for the June 44 meeting.
08-22-2009 | 06:24 PM
#8
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From: MD-88 F/O
Slowplay,
I am well aware of the scope situation at our airline. That is one of the main motivators to getting the information gathered and processed for others to view. There is no intention to bash the company nor ALPA. Purely data. Being present during a portion of Council 44's last LEC meeting, I participated in the vote to require a "SCOPE CARD" from Council 44. It is a good start to making things more transparent. Friends at United have a battle of their careers coming to them. APA is trying to hold the line with their regional operation. Information is always a good tool. Therefore, the desire to produce something non-biased and easy to read is the point here. Hopefully, it will be an aid.
As for your gaff at me for selling scope merchandise, what does it hurt? I am not requiring anyone to purchase anything. It is meant as a way to show unity, not gouge anyone. I came from AE and was always well aware of AA pilot's scope displays. Some folks laugh and say it is a waste of effort. I disagree. Who in the legacy carrier world has the strongest scope lanuage? I believe that symbols can be very persuasive. Its a way to show others you thoughts from across the room.
Hopefully you agree on the need to have a more open dialog of where we came from and where we are going as far as outsourcing is concerned. I do not wish to have DALPA show our hand in future negotiatins but there is a need to get more of our stance as a pilot group felt and heard. It is better to be prgressive than reactionary to the challenges ahead of us.
DogWhisperer
"GOT SCOPE"
I am well aware of the scope situation at our airline. That is one of the main motivators to getting the information gathered and processed for others to view. There is no intention to bash the company nor ALPA. Purely data. Being present during a portion of Council 44's last LEC meeting, I participated in the vote to require a "SCOPE CARD" from Council 44. It is a good start to making things more transparent. Friends at United have a battle of their careers coming to them. APA is trying to hold the line with their regional operation. Information is always a good tool. Therefore, the desire to produce something non-biased and easy to read is the point here. Hopefully, it will be an aid.
As for your gaff at me for selling scope merchandise, what does it hurt? I am not requiring anyone to purchase anything. It is meant as a way to show unity, not gouge anyone. I came from AE and was always well aware of AA pilot's scope displays. Some folks laugh and say it is a waste of effort. I disagree. Who in the legacy carrier world has the strongest scope lanuage? I believe that symbols can be very persuasive. Its a way to show others you thoughts from across the room.
Hopefully you agree on the need to have a more open dialog of where we came from and where we are going as far as outsourcing is concerned. I do not wish to have DALPA show our hand in future negotiatins but there is a need to get more of our stance as a pilot group felt and heard. It is better to be prgressive than reactionary to the challenges ahead of us.
DogWhisperer
"GOT SCOPE"
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