I've witnessed a DPE like this first hand. Didn't matter if he talked to you for 5 minutes or did the entire checkride, you were getting charged $450. And re-tests were $450, period. To put a cherry on top, he would show up in his brand new Beamer just so you know what your money was buying him. That guy made my blood boil

 

Totally agree. There should be an appeals process when dealing with schmucks like that.

Overall, the training process is incredibly broken. Although certainly a strong exercise, you can't tell me that steep turns can't be replaced with more content-valid testing material.

 

There is - you can request a check ride with the FAA instead... Not defending this examiner - but you can always request an FAA ride instead - sometimes the wait will be much longer though...

 

Yes, but there is no way to get a unsubstantiated disapproval expunged. It's illogical to me that violations, incidents, and other enforcement actions disappear, yet what you did twenty or so years ago stays with you for life. Regardless, any such "black mark" really shouldn't matter if appropriate corrective action was taken (retrains, retests, etc.). I'm not being an apologist for someone with a huge streak of failures, but each person should be looked at on a case-by-case basis, and rehabilitation should be part of that analysis.

I ultimately respect SWA's take, which is the fact that they've never hired a perfect pilot and don't intend on doing so any time soon.

 

Think I had him for my 145 type oral. Started telling me how much of a embaresment I was because my flight bag had duct tape holding it together...this as we are walking upstairs to start the oral, My reply was when I make a livable wage then I'll buy a new one. Guess how that oral went? As said before, anyone can fail for any reason and someones failures may not always be just.

 

I have conducted hundreds of check rides and I've had to do my fair share of busts. But they really are a tiny minority. Attitude often plays into it. I had a guy fly a real nice V1 cut great aircraft control. He then proceeded to completely disregard the T-procedure. His F/O prompted him to enter the hold that was specified on the T-proc. He replied that he wasn't interested in doing the gd T (a required procedure at our airline) and requested a vector from me. A heading would take him straight into steeply rising terrain the exact terrain that the T-proc was designed to keep you away from.

I granted him his wish and let him fly straight into a sea of red on the nav display. Just about the time the GPWS started howling TERRAIN, TERRAIN he turned around and started chewing me out for "allowing" him to take his own requested heading. Sometime these decisions are so simple.

My take on it was always that I can work with a guy if he makes some nervous mistakes and has a good attitude. But if he is unsafe or has basic deficiencies in his flying skills we are done.

 

Good posts whisker and Airhoss

My story,

When I was a check-airman at my regional (don't ask how it happened cuz it was all PFM), we had a guy bust a line check due to nerves. We had a lot of guys that looooved to intimidate that were in the training dept. Line check busts should be slim to none but there are always exceptions. So this CA that busted goes down to take his PC and busts again. Now the red flags start. If he busts again he's done. He gets through his PC and now has to take his return to the line ride.

I end up getting assigned to do his line check and get 'counseled' on how the company would be better off without him 'hint hint.' And to make sure everything is copacetic his regular F/O is bought out and I'm assigned to check him from the right seat. I go out of the way to call this guy and ask him about the 1st line check. He told me he was intimidated by Capt. X from the start and it all went downhill from there. The PC bust was just nerves cuz I spoke with the APD about it.

I told the CA that this will be a make or break ride as far as the company is concerned but to think of it as a simple out-and-back with two friends. Long story short, he flew beautifully I faxed in the paperwork that all was sat and when I eventually resigned he wrote me a nice letter. He's still there and hasn't had any troubles since. Bottom line, I felt I could trust having my family with him in the front and could care less of appeasing the pink first, ask questions later guys in the trng dept. I'm all for legitimate busts but the whole 'I have the power' attitude at the very beginning not only kills CRM, but usually causes pilot deficiency in some very good sticks.

Sorry for the novel

 

My last checkride examiner said and I quote "I've been doing this for 24 years, and I still haven't seen the perfect checkride"... about an hour later in the sim, I screwed up the circling approach prety good, I mean real good, he still passed me.....

If you think you haven't failed a checkride because you're special, watch out.

I agree, it depends on who you get

 

Absolutely, and it leads me to my next question. If you were on a hiring board, when would one's checkride history become a concern? I am hearing that some airlines are instituting a maximum number, which I think is stupid. No, you don't want a guy who becomes a safety and/or training liability. HOWEVER, what if the applicant just came up through a screw-ball training program? What about the guy with no failures who's uncle was a DPE?

Personally, I think a common-sense dichotomy is in order:

- Number of checkrides failed versus passed, and over what time period
- Nature of failures
- Culture of previous training programs (141 v. 61, Trans States J31, CoEx 1900, etc.)
- Ability on technical/simulator evaluations
- Professional references

Without know the answers to the above questions, how is an operation going to have ANY idea of what they're hiring? To my knowledge NWA has always held a "more than two and you need not apply" policy, which I think is short-sighted. And then of course you have the moron running PCL, who claims that, had they known about two additional GA failures, CA Renslow wouldn't have "been in that seat."


Regardless, I don't know how you guys do it. I have ultimate respect for those still fighting the good fight in 121 operations. Keep your heads up! I'm trying to influence some change "from the inside," but we all know how effective the FAA's "tombstone mentality" is.

 

What's going to happen if they implement a "max number of failed checksrides" is that a kid is going to go to flight school, bust a couple of checkrides, and pull the plug on aviation. " I pink-slipped two checkrides, what chance do I have?.. I'm done"....

you are going to see more guys start flight school and not finished than ever before. Not to mention the excessive pressure that would put on a kid before and during the ride