Would you ever scab as revenge?
09-11-2009 | 08:50 PM
#32
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From: MD80
09-12-2009 | 04:48 AM
#33
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From: 767er Captain
It is yours to use only when sick.
It is indeed a negotiated benefit but like insurance only intended to be used when needed. Calling in sick when not needed is like filing an auto insurance claim when your car was never damaged.
When the benefit is negotiated, the company gives us a certain amount of sick leave in our banks based on data of how often the average person is ill over a career. Just like an insurance company calculating a premium based on likelihood of an accident.
They don't calculate the benefit on everyone using all of their bank. if they did, the bank accrual would be significantly lower or the cost to us in other areas of the contract would be higher.
It is indeed a negotiated benefit but like insurance only intended to be used when needed. Calling in sick when not needed is like filing an auto insurance claim when your car was never damaged.
When the benefit is negotiated, the company gives us a certain amount of sick leave in our banks based on data of how often the average person is ill over a career. Just like an insurance company calculating a premium based on likelihood of an accident.
They don't calculate the benefit on everyone using all of their bank. if they did, the bank accrual would be significantly lower or the cost to us in other areas of the contract would be higher.
09-12-2009 | 05:42 AM
#34
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I find it somewhat ironic that, since stapling is such a no-no, why were most F9 pilots so willing to accept that without repercussions?
09-12-2009 | 05:45 AM
#35
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And this then becomes yet another benefit death spiral. I'll betcha that the majority of guys NEVER use all of their sick leave. Therefore when renegotiated, and using your logic, the amount of hours available to us should go down. Unacceptable in my humble opinion. And to paraphrase something that scheduling says all the time when describing how they determine the number of shortcalls on any given day "They are available, why shouldn't I use them?" But more to the point. I agree with the guy who noted that since they are in the bank, they are mine to use. (And it's been a looooong time since I've used 'em all)
You've got it backwards. As long as the overall sick leave usage remains reasonable, DAL won't be motivated to do what they've recently done (limit the 100% hours). And we ALL get to benefit from a large annual bank that can be used, AS NEEDED.
As sailingfun mentioned, the "insurance company" (DAL) can afford to offer reasonable "insurance" (sick leave) at a reasonable rate, but only if we don't file claims for the limit every year. If the claims go up, the rates will too.
09-12-2009 | 06:11 AM
#36
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Joined: Feb 2008
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It is yours to use only when sick.
It is indeed a negotiated benefit but like insurance only intended to be used when needed. Calling in sick when not needed is like filing an auto insurance claim when your car was never damaged.
When the benefit is negotiated, the company gives us a certain amount of sick leave in our banks based on data of how often the average person is ill over a career. Just like an insurance company calculating a premium based on likelihood of an accident.
They don't calculate the benefit on everyone using all of their bank. if they did, the bank accrual would be significantly lower or the cost to us in other areas of the contract would be higher.
It is indeed a negotiated benefit but like insurance only intended to be used when needed. Calling in sick when not needed is like filing an auto insurance claim when your car was never damaged.
When the benefit is negotiated, the company gives us a certain amount of sick leave in our banks based on data of how often the average person is ill over a career. Just like an insurance company calculating a premium based on likelihood of an accident.
They don't calculate the benefit on everyone using all of their bank. if they did, the bank accrual would be significantly lower or the cost to us in other areas of the contract would be higher.
Others somehow believe their individual actions don't have consequences for the group. Delta had some pretty strong data to back up their demand for a 75% pay sick bank after so many hours of usage. So did NWA. Amazingly, when the pay was reduced pilot behavior changed.
Contracts and labor law don't allow easy individual enforcement for management; they took the simpler route and got the results they wanted.Those guys that use "platinum days" have cost those that are legitimately sick money when they most needed it. Of course, those hours are "theirs to use..."
09-12-2009 | 06:13 AM
#37
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And this then becomes yet another benefit death spiral. I'll betcha that the majority of guys NEVER use all of their sick leave. Therefore when renegotiated, and using your logic, the amount of hours available to us should go down. Unacceptable in my humble opinion. And to paraphrase something that scheduling says all the time when describing how they determine the number of shortcalls on any given day "They are available, why shouldn't I use them?" But more to the point. I agree with the guy who noted that since they are in the bank, they are mine to use. (And it's been a looooong time since I've used 'em all)
Sick leave is a insurance benefit. We had a minority of pilots abusing a very good sick leave insurance program. The company went after those pilots with the reliability program. DALPA responded with a grievance and the company got their a__ handed to them by the mediator.
Fast forward to being in court under a 1113 motion. What goes around comes around. The company hands us our a__ with a new and purely punitive sick leave program. There are pilots out there who really needed the old program. Guys with cancer, serious accidents, brain tumors ect... who are now screwed because of the actions of a minority of pilots.
On the short call subject the company is allowed to put each pilot on short call 6 times per month. The current system average is 2.8 shortcalls per reserve pilot. The facts don't support your comment. If your complaint is about the random method they assign them then that would be very valid. If its the number of short calls the company is far from using every one they can because they can.
09-12-2009 | 06:23 AM
#38
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I have no doubt that there was a small minority of individuals that abused the system, always have been, always will be. However to punish the entire group with an onerous sick leave policy is punative. When we asked Steenland about it, he used the sick leave abuse response...we said if you feel there there is abuse go after the abusers not the entire group...he said it was just a negotiating position. Its like anything else in the contract, its all up for negotiation.
09-12-2009 | 07:39 AM
#39
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From: 767er Captain
I have no doubt that there was a small minority of individuals that abused the system, always have been, always will be. However to punish the entire group with an onerous sick leave policy is punative. When we asked Steenland about it, he used the sick leave abuse response...we said if you feel there there is abuse go after the abusers not the entire group...he said it was just a negotiating position. Its like anything else in the contract, its all up for negotiation.
Exactly... The old punitive argument is old and thin.
09-12-2009 | 07:41 AM
#40
No longer cares
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 12,109
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From: 767er Captain
Sick leave is a insurance benefit. We had a minority of pilots abusing a very good sick leave insurance program. The company went after those pilots with the reliability program. DALPA responded with a grievance and the company got their a__ handed to them by the mediator.
Fast forward to being in court under a 1113 motion. What goes around comes around. The company hands us our a__ with a new and purely punitive sick leave program. There are pilots out there who really needed the old program. Guys with cancer, serious accidents, brain tumors ect... who are now screwed because of the actions of a minority of pilots.
On the short call subject the company is allowed to put each pilot on short call 6 times per month. The current system average is 2.8 shortcalls per reserve pilot. The facts don't support your comment. If your complaint is about the random method they assign them then that would be very valid. If its the number of short calls the company is far from using every one they can because they can.
Fast forward to being in court under a 1113 motion. What goes around comes around. The company hands us our a__ with a new and purely punitive sick leave program. There are pilots out there who really needed the old program. Guys with cancer, serious accidents, brain tumors ect... who are now screwed because of the actions of a minority of pilots.
On the short call subject the company is allowed to put each pilot on short call 6 times per month. The current system average is 2.8 shortcalls per reserve pilot. The facts don't support your comment. If your complaint is about the random method they assign them then that would be very valid. If its the number of short calls the company is far from using every one they can because they can.
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