The Delta "wind check"
 

OK, guys, I'm trying to be serious:D.

Why do Delta pilots routinely ask for a wind check? Is it a procedural requirement? Does it have to do with the particular aircraft you're flying? Perhaps some type of limitational requirement? Is it just an old military habit? The rest of us smile every time you guys as for a "wind check," but if there's a good reason, I'd be curious to hear what it is. Enlighten me!

Didn't know we did that any more than anyone else. Doubt there's any reason but the higher percentage of anal, controlling military types who think it matters beyond the gust adjustment or crosswind limits.

Nice feeders by the way.

Because Selma Hayek takes the wind out of our sails.

Or because we have wind additives to our approach speed due to gusts and crosswinds.

Do you mean that you have wind additives to your "ref" speeds? Or do you add to your approach speed as well? I'm pretty sure everyone add wind corrections to ref speed.

What type of plane do you fly? Do you have any procedural wind or gust additives?

You want to when or why I would ask for a windcheck?

When my navigational display shows a 15 knot tailwind on final yet tower is calling 10 knots headwind down the runway ---- or the ATIS I just received called winds 30018G26 (for example this morning in Austin) but tower said 300/9 cleared to land --- I become very suspicious of what they tell me.

I am not a military guy, just someone that likes to know what I can expect. How many times have you seen an ATIS be off or old, just like to think a head.

Nice pic!

CRJ200; "A speed additive of five kts. is the minimum factor, and ten kts. is the maximum. Vref factor is adjusted for wind gust by dividing the gust factor by two, and adding it to Vref."

So at what point do you quit believing the tower? In other words, when do you make the decision to go around should the winds exceed limitations? Would you land if the tower reported a 10kt headwind even though your PFD indicated a 15kt tailwind?

How do you guys determine your Vref factor? And how much different would it be given the stated conditions?

I guess my question really is, "If the conditions are not likely to be rapidly changing, is it really necessary to clog up the frequency by asking for a wind check? (If you listen, you'll notice that the tower will typically annouce any significant changes in wind speed and or direction) And even if the conditions are rapidly changing, who's to say that they're going to be the same 30 to 60 seconds from now when you land? At some point, don't you have to make your best assessment and go with it?"

I remember a few years ago it was somebody asking why AA pilots (not Delta) always ask for a wind check. He received the same responses. Someone automatically responded about ex-military guys being too anal. Someone else tried to explain exactly why they did it. Many reasons, some valid, some maybe not. If the original post was intended to learn technique I applaud your desire to better yourself. There are many valid reasons to ask for winds on short final.

If you don't want a wind check, don't ask for one but there's no need to ridicule someone else for asking about information over the runway of intended landing. I don't know too many areas in aviation where having too much information will hurt you. Maybe the guys who refuse to ask for wind updates think it's not macho and their coolness factor diminishes. Most of the exceptional pilots I know save the coolness test for the bar and want as much information as possible when flying. The weak pilots are the ones who think they need no help to handle it all with one eye closed, one engine out and a worthless copilot. Like Clint said, "A man's got ta know his limitations."

#1. You're assuming that DAL is the only flight crews that ever ask for wind checks.

#2. You're comment about the necessity of asking for a windcheck is baseless and unprofessional. There are plenty of legitimate reasons why someone may ask for a windcheck. The last thing they need is for others to think that they're doing it for no good reason.

#3. You're missing the point. When things don't look right, it's best to be prepared and to start thinking about what you're going to do if winds suddenly change.

In my scenario, if my equipment is saying tailwinds and tower is calling headwinds, I know there's a shear. How bad? I don't know, it depends on how rapidly or slowly the direction changes. But knowledge is power and it helps me know if there's a potential problem that I'm about to fly into.

#4. I have no idea why anyone other than myself has asked for a windcheck. I've only done it a couple of times. But I assume the others had good reasons, just as I did.

#5. I almost forgot, tower is required to give you winds in a landing clearance, and well, they're human just like us, they forget.

Is it really that big of a deal? I like the fact that the DAL pilots (and I've never noticed them doing it any more than others) ask for this.

I agree with KCFAT. I also ask for wind checks when I'm suspicious of something going on. The wind can change rapidly, and I like to know what to expect, especially if it's a contaminated runway - particularly during the winter months.

Ah......, yeah, in Atlanta, 9 times out of 10 it's Delta!

Well, when the wind has been the same for the past 6 hours, one begins to wonder.

In your scenario, if you suspect windshear I would agree.

Which is why I'm asking. In Atlanta, it's quite obvious that it's usually Delta who's asking. Which is why I wondered if it was procedural, aircraft specific, or just something that kind of catches on with the pilot group.

Maybe because 9 out of 10 flights going into Atlanta are Delta? Maybe?

Windshere, windsthere, windseverywhere...ygbsm...:rolleyes:

Wow, a Delta Aircraft in Atlanta huh? :rolleyes:

What are the odds of that happening???

That's what I thought...Didn't know we did it more than anyone else. Always cracks me up when one of these threads pops up. Keep "laughing" and "chuckling" at us silkysmooth....What relevance at all does a thread like this have?
There is no "procedural requirement" other than for us to get the most current winds to adjust our REF speed.
Like I said, keep laughing and keep flying slow when the winds pick up and you didn't know about it because you were too embarrassed to ask for a "wind check". Stupid thread but had to respond.

Very well said Eagledriver.....could not agree with you more. You put it more eloquently than I ever can.

Not only that...but does it really "clog up the frequency" in the 4 second exchange it takes to get winds?.....Maybe we should stop asking for taxi clearance verifications on ground control because that too "clogs up the frequency":cool:
Or altitude verifications on climb outs and descents? Sheeeeesh.

when i fly DC3s almost always ask for a wind check,it matters,whats the big deal ?

If you are going to disengage the auto-throttles on a manual approach the Boeing manuals require a additive. As you have discussed it is min of 5.
(All steady state+1/2 the gust) That is the reason most of the guys I fly with ask for it. The are professionals and want the exact additive needed, not a knot more not a knot less.

It's actually 1/2 the steady state and all of the gust. Min is + 5, Max is +20 FYI.

Thanks for the specific response. The rest of ya'll took this thread waaaaay too personal.:eek:

For the month of August 2009, from the Bureau of Transportation Statistics, Delta flew 1/3 of all departures from Atlanta (12,849 out of 37,476).

So do some adjust the ref additive on the fly? I typically set the additive based off the atis while in range. I adjust it when cleared to land if its a big change, like no longer gusting, but i dont change it if its just a change in wind speed or direction. maybe its because i'm not that fast at mental math?

It seems like when i hear a wind check, the guy is at 500ft. Are guys adjusting Vapp at 500ft?

Just use ground speed mini:D

deleted:mad::D

My God. I can't believe this thread is still going.

So when I go back to work tomorrow, I'm going to make it a point to ask for a wind check every time I'm flying! :D:cool:

Hey... what can I say... simulator pilots ask for the wind check... while real pilots just get on with the task and land the jet.

I agree. Information is for [...]ssies.

At the end of the day... tower winds are just that... tower winds. If one disconnects the autopilot early on during the approach/landing phase the airplane will tell your hands and feet what it needs.

We don't set our +factor until it's bugged and we're slowing down to it for final configuration. The most up to date winds are the most accurate.. not an hour old ATIS.

And what on earth were they talking about hearing Delta calling for windcheck in ATL? I havent seen a Delta plane there in forever. Isn't that AirTran's hub?

Great response.

The more you fly an airplane, the more you know about it. The sooner you disconnect the A/P on arrival the sooner you will become in sync or in tune with your plane.

Come on folks you set the bug based on reported winds. But come on... how many have flown a faster speed because of unreported gust factors? Do you reset the bug, or do you just fly the jet?

At the end of the day... speed is your friend... isn't it? When approaching to land on a 10,000 foot runway, will an additional 5 knots in approach speed with a ground speed of 130 knots make a difference?

Hey... after 30+ years of doing this jet flying, I'm still trying to figure this here aviation stuff out. Get back to basics, and just fly the plane.

Yeah, but "How long is final today?" :D

Every year this topic has been posted, whether on FI or any of the other forums. Its the one of the Zombies of topics, like (insert airline here) only hires Military, Cargo vs Pax, mil vs civ, Comair vs Delta, mesa sucks, National seniority list now!, Here's how to save the profession, etc.

Did I miss any?

Is this really being discussed again?.... Eagledriver had it right, if you don't care then don't ask. Some like to get every bit of information they can get, some like to fly more seat of their pants like captnjns with his/her 1000s of hours....I occasionally ask for winds, and when I do I know there is someone out there on frequency who is a much better pilot than I who is smirking, and I couldn't possibly care less.

My experience has been in ATL it is usually Delta MD-88s wind checking on final. Perhaps technology, or lack thereof, plays a role. With airplanes being cleared to land every couple of minutes, current wind information seems to be readily available without having to ask. It surely is not a military thing, perhaps with the exception of the DAL MD-88 guy in my unit:-)

I seem to notice the opposite trend in my IAH neighborhood, we hear Expressjet and Continental with their fancy schmancy aeromuplanes asking for wind checks all the time, and then if we hear a Colgan asking for a wind check we give him a wedgie in the crew room (kidding)...

For me personally, I can pretty well tell if the winds are worth adding speed by the movement in the airspeed needle and the bumps, and don't really feel that a number is necessary. Others might be more number oriented, and that's fine too. But, I suspect that having a number glaring you in the face that is significantly different than the number tower gave you might inspire suspicion about wind shear, so by all means, ask. We know more about the winds than the airplane does in our case in the mighty Saab, so unless we are told the winds are 360 at 20 and we are crabbing 30 degrees towards the south to maintain localizer, we don't usually think anything is amiss.

I do get a little chuckle however when ATIS and tower have been saying winds are something like 6 knots, final is smooth, our heading matches the final course, and I hear someone asking for a wind check. Can't help but think "really? You can't manage this without a number?"

While I agree with everything you wrote, being a Professional Pilot means gathering as much information as you can to help make a decision....in this case, help with your situational awareness and not be caught off guard by something. I get it, get the airplane on the ground and on centerline with whatever crab/correction it takes, but I never heard of an accident happening because Pilots had TOO MUCH information.

I can't say for sure, and this is a stretch, but if I heard someone ask for a wind check I would assume he wanted to know what the current wind is. :) As to the "Why," maybe DAL Pilots just want to bring a "smile" to our fellow pilots beaming faces. :D

Scoop