slowplay

Geez, Bar...did you read the line "not intentionally altered"...

The premerger DCI carriers had existing DCAs. The premerger DCI's had their own collective bargaining agreements. Trying to apply those LOA's to a mature situation would have required negotiations between DAL and DCI and the DCI carriers and their CBA's. What you "think" wasn't possible in the timeline that we had, and I'm not sure that it would be either achievable or desireable if we'd had the time.

What's up with you today? This isn't your normal style of debate.

johnso29

The conflicting interests is ALPA CANNOT protect & enhance the careers of Mainline pilots while doing the same for Regional pilots. In this day of larger, longer range regional jets it's a constant game of tug of war.

How does ALPA protect & enhance the careers of DAL pilots and do the same for Comair, Mesaba, ASA, & Compass when DAL pilots have a payscale for the CRJ-900/EMB-175? Comair, ASA, Mesaba, & Compass pilots are flying routes formerly & currently flown by Mainline aircraft. As a result, opportunities for QOL @ Mainline decrease, while @ the Regionals they increase. Granted, Comair & Mesaba are dealing with furloughs, but due to contractual obligations with other DCI carriers they are taking the majority of the reductions.

Plain & simple, ALPA has conflicting interests.

shadyops

It's only conflicting to those who plan to spend a career at a feeder airline. The more mainline flying the less regional jobs. This equals more higher paying jobs. I don't see how every regional and mainline pilot don't want this?

Bucking Bar

Good point. But we agree that this language is not "absolute" as it applies to ASA and Comair, but is absolute as it applies to Compass.

My point is that when it comes to enforcement, the water is muddy making it more difficult to enforce. As organized religion discovered with the Bible, best to say it is absolute and infallible. That position makes it much easier to defend.

When challenged, are we really going to state that our contract selectively applies to some members (who weren't at the table) but not other members (who weren't at the table) ?

I submit it is better for us to do our own flying and thus Delta pilots are all treated the same. UNITY is so much stronger a position.

By the way - I'm happy to see you here doing crowd control. It DOES facilitate communication and DOES help bring our pilot group together - via venting, catharsis, and consideration of eachother's ideas.

johnso29

Many, many, many pilots have decided to stay @ their respective regionals for the remainder of their careers. It's become more of a norm everyday. That's why it has become an even larger set of conflicting interests in the last 8 years.

shadyops

Many have, but the majority still want to move on. When and if both groups have separate unions all unity will be lost and it will be an eternal tug of war. With regional airlines purchasing mainline carriers, I am not sure which side will make out better.

nwa757

Slowplay, your posts indicate that you are at a seniority position where a flowback to Compass isn't possible for you. I challenge you to put yourself in other pilot's shoes, because your shoes seem to be eager to step on junior regional pilots for your own career betterment. Did you ever have senior people mistreat you for their own betterment? ...and if you did, did you enjoy it and decided to continue that tradition?

Did I just correctly see you claim that you don't care who the bargaining agent is for Compass? So, if you were to put yourself in the shoes of a junior Delta pilot that is furloughed down, you wouldn't care if it was ALPA, Teamsters, or ABC union representing you? Really?

I'm not trying to antagonize here, I am just trying to understand the 'eat your young attitude' that hurts our unity in this profession.

hoserpilot

Shady - Most Delta pilots have never flown for a regional and some have no clue as to the path a civilian takes to get a mainline job. This is not a slam on them just a fact. Likewise I'm clueless to the military route and wish I had the chance to fly faster than .85M. But some do see regional pilots as lesser aviators not worthy of flying the Delta brand. Some good old cockpit education then ensues and I enlighten them. Years of instructing, corporate flying, trying to stay alive flying night freight, regionals with young hot fa's...... only problem is they usually get distracted with the young naked hottie flight attendant pics and stories (-:

Good luck, and not all Deltoids want you off the list. Just remember some even had resolutions to explore bringing you to our list but got tabled.

SoCalGuy

The most true statement of the week.


ALPA representing "like" regional v mainline carriers has been the 5,000lb elephant for many years. For a long time, this hot topic was something that was 'not an issue', something that ALPA felt they could make work. With the mass change in landscape issue's pertaining to our industry, we (the pilots on all levels) have had to change, what about our union leadership?? Living out of the same play book used in 1998 is not going to work really well in our present industry. If this is allowed to matriculate along the same path for much longer, the implosion is not too far beyond the horizon.


With these conflicting interests becoming more evident in recent years, it serves as another bit of evidence that ALPA is "just becoming/being more so of a business", versus being a "union".


Not finger pointing at a Regional vs. Mainline on the topic.....Look to the organization as a whole when trying to surmise 'who is painting who into a corner'.

acl65pilot

Ever think that we could have a split like this:

MALPA=mainline ALPA
RALPA=Regional ALPA

with a governing body of ALPA National over the two?

Or just the two that are part of IALPA. Just some thoughts, give your suggestions.