House passes pilot training bill
10-15-2009, 05:56 AM
#61
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Originally Posted by Engineer Pilot
From what I'm reading the 1500 hours (or ATP) is not needed until 3 years from today (10/14/2012). So you have three years to build whatever time you have up to 1500. Is that how you other fellas read it? Read it again below...
"(B) ALL FLIGHT CREWMEMBERS- Rules issued under paragraph (1) shall ensure that, after the date that is 3 years after the date of enactment of this Act, all flight crewmembers--
"(B) ALL FLIGHT CREWMEMBERS- Rules issued under paragraph (1) shall ensure that, after the date that is 3 years after the date of enactment of this Act, all flight crewmembers--
- (i) have obtained an airline transport pilot license under part 61 of title 14, Code of Federal Regulations;"
It is three years from when the bill is enacted into law.... that means once Obama signs it... then the clock starts.
10-15-2009, 05:58 AM
#62
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Originally Posted by Selcall
Unlike many of us who either went into the military or did the ramp rat, fueling airplanes while not instructing, part 135 single pilot freight job these kids honestly believe that because some hustler sold them on the idea that spending over $50,000 for 8 weeks in a simulator qualifies you for a job flying a CRJ and makes you an airline pilot. Not all but some of the guys on the regional thread honestly believe that the company and society owes this to them because of their sacrifices.
I think that this is a prime example of what "Sully" has mentioned on several talk shows the last few days promoting his book that there unfortunately appears to be, for the most part, a direct relationship between the level of professionalism of the flight crews today and their level of experience in this field.
Depending on the results of the joint bill and how it is worded, I think that over the next few years things may become very fluid and dynamic within our industry. Not only for the regionals but also legacy/major carriers which use regional airlines to provide them feed.
The series of unfortunate accidents over the past few years by their respective regional partners has exposed the mainline companies to what some are quietly stipulating as too much financial culpability for the amount of services they are contracted to perform. With no disrespect to the victims of Colgan intended, Delta, Continental, and the rest of the members of Sky Team have taken a huge hit it in the shorts concerning their financial liability and responsibility (paying of both explicit and nonexplicit damages) over this accident.
I think that this is a prime example of what "Sully" has mentioned on several talk shows the last few days promoting his book that there unfortunately appears to be, for the most part, a direct relationship between the level of professionalism of the flight crews today and their level of experience in this field.
Depending on the results of the joint bill and how it is worded, I think that over the next few years things may become very fluid and dynamic within our industry. Not only for the regionals but also legacy/major carriers which use regional airlines to provide them feed.
The series of unfortunate accidents over the past few years by their respective regional partners has exposed the mainline companies to what some are quietly stipulating as too much financial culpability for the amount of services they are contracted to perform. With no disrespect to the victims of Colgan intended, Delta, Continental, and the rest of the members of Sky Team have taken a huge hit it in the shorts concerning their financial liability and responsibility (paying of both explicit and nonexplicit damages) over this accident.
Amen ! Well written.
10-15-2009, 06:01 AM
#63
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Originally Posted by JethroFDX
Overall they performed to standards on the sim rides and on IOE, but their scope of experience was very very limited and it showed in some scenarios.
I will say that those who got on at PCL, with low time, who started as interns were the best group of folks that I have ever had the pleasure to work with.
10-15-2009, 06:27 AM
#64
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Originally Posted by satchip
You should go read the regional thread on this topic. The entitlement mentality of some of these kids is amazing. "I'm not paying for it! They better give it to me. Now I have to spend three more years instructing before I can get that RJ job! Now I have to fly freight to get the XC time!" It seems there are some adults on that thread who make a good argument and intelligent conversation. But for the most part the tone is quite different.
one good thing, is they do not have stamina, they talk but balk at the same time.
10-15-2009, 07:00 AM
#65
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Originally Posted by slowplay
The Jefferson City accident is one where the limited scope of experience showed up fatally. There's nothing in this new bill that will prevent a repeat of it. This bill, imo, is not much different than the reaction that caused the TSA to be formed. We now have a intrusive, standardized uniform group that helps create the impression of security among the public. After this bill we'll have standardized flight hours and a lot of hoops to jump through, but will the root causes of thoese fatal accidents be addressed?
10-15-2009, 08:27 AM
#66
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Originally Posted by slowplay
The Jefferson City accident is one where the limited scope of experience showed up fatally. There's nothing in this new bill that will prevent a repeat of it. This bill, imo, is not much different than the reaction that caused the TSA to be formed. We now have a intrusive, standardized uniform group that helps create the impression of security among the public. After this bill we'll have standardized flight hours and a lot of hoops to jump through, but will the root causes of thoese fatal accidents be addressed?
As far as the rules go, it's the government, so go figure.
10-15-2009, 09:59 AM
#67
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Originally Posted by slowplay
The Jefferson City accident is one where the limited scope of experience showed up fatally. There's nothing in this new bill that will prevent a repeat of it. This bill, imo, is not much different than the reaction that caused the TSA to be formed. We now have a intrusive, standardized uniform group that helps create the impression of security among the public. After this bill we'll have standardized flight hours and a lot of hoops to jump through, but will the root causes of thoese fatal accidents be addressed?
Its like someone said, every Part 121 crash in recent times has had an ATP in charge. In the next Part 121 accident you'll still have one ATP in charge.
Or maybe with two ATPs the accidents won't happen, because two heads are better than one.
"Look it doesn't take a genius to know that every organization thrives when it has two leaders. Go ahead, name a country that doesn't have two presidents. A boat that sets sail without two captains. Where would Catholicism be, without the popes."
10-15-2009, 11:37 AM
#68
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Originally Posted by forgot to bid
Agreed.
Its like someone said, every Part 121 crash in recent times has had an ATP in charge. In the next Part 121 accident you'll still have one ATP in charge.
Or maybe with two ATPs the accidents won't happen, because two heads are better than one.
"Look it doesn't take a genius to know that every organization thrives when it has two leaders. Go ahead, name a country that doesn't have two presidents. A boat that sets sail without two captains. Where would Catholicism be, without the popes."
Its like someone said, every Part 121 crash in recent times has had an ATP in charge. In the next Part 121 accident you'll still have one ATP in charge.
Or maybe with two ATPs the accidents won't happen, because two heads are better than one.
"Look it doesn't take a genius to know that every organization thrives when it has two leaders. Go ahead, name a country that doesn't have two presidents. A boat that sets sail without two captains. Where would Catholicism be, without the popes."
I do agree with slowplay that this may not address all of the problems, but how can anyone argue that more flight experience in the cockpit is a bad thing?
At best a low-timer is keeping up with what's going on (don't plan on too much situational awareness for the first few hundred hours at least.) At worst a low-timer is a huge distraction and can be more harm than good.
Again, no knock at anyone personally, as we've all be low-time at some point in our careers. However, when a passenger buys a ticket on an airline, he/she should not be subjected to "on the job training." This is a win if it makes it through the senate, and past Obama.
10-15-2009, 12:33 PM
#69
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Originally Posted by lifter123
That's what I remember. However, it did pass the house by almost a landslide: 409-11, so I'm guessing the senate will not be a problem
10-15-2009, 01:35 PM
#70
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Originally Posted by Mason32
Amen ! Well written.
Ditto! Not to sound old, but the expectations of the younger are unrealistic. What isn't also realized is that they are eating their own. When they do make a major airline, which they shouldn't for years, they complain that the pay is so low and "this is not what I expected"....well it is because of this mindset that has caused the problem to begin with and most don't even see it.
I sat by a girl who just got hired in 07 by Colgan. She had flown for less than a year, one of the crap schools, and had 400ish hours when hired. I started asking her questions about flying and experience stuff and she was clueless. It took my breath away. Some of the regional guys wonder why I sit in the JS when there are seats in the back?
In addition, the crap schools kicking these guys out are smiling even more, they now have to have even more school time...more money for them.
Hard work and experience never killed too many people.
My opinion only.
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