Northwest jet overshoots Minneapolis airport
 

Just saw this on the WSJ. This blurb below is from the Minneapolis paper. The WSJ suggests the crew might of fallen alsleep. Here's the flightaware data too:

http://flightaware.com/live/flight/N...135Z/KSAN/KMSP

Northwest jet overshoots Minneapolis airport
Associated Press
Last update: October 22, 2009 - 2:46 PM

MINNEAPOLIS - Federal officials say a Northwest Airlines jet overflew the Minneapolis airport by 150 miles before crew members discovered their mistake. The plane landed safely Wednesday evening, and none of the 147 passengers and crew were injured. The National Transportation Safety Board says the Airbus A320 was flying from San Diego to Minneapolis and lost radio contact with controllers before 7 p.m. The NTSB says the jet flew about 150 miles past the Minneapolis airport before communications were re-established at 8:14 p.m. The Federal Aviation Administration says the crew told authorities they became distracted during a heated discussion over airline policy and lost track of where they were. Airline officials didn't immediately return calls.

Well, there's another explanation....

Northwest pilots slumber; miss landing strip: WSJ
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NEW YORK (MarketWatch) -- Pilots of a Northwest Airlines flight to Minneapolis from San Diego were being investigated Thursday for allegedly falling asleep and overshooting their destination by about 100 miles. No one was injured during the incident, which occurred Wednesday night, The Wall Street Journal reported, citing unnamed government and industry officials. Pilots on the Airbus A320 briefly lost radio contact with air-traffic controllers before turning the plane around and landing, the newspaper said. The incident comes as the Federal Aviation Administration is reviewing its decades-old rules on how long commercial pilots can fly and remain on duty, the Journal said. Northwest is a unit of Delta Air Lines (DAL 8.55, +0.22, +2.64%) .

from the Wall Street Journal
Airport Overshoot Prompts Pilot-Fatigue Probe

By ANDY PASZTOR

A Northwest Airlines flight approaching Minneapolis Wednesday night lost contact with controllers and overshot its destination by about 150 miles before circling back to land. Federal safety regulators are investigating the incident as a possible case of pilots nodding off, according to government and airline-industry officials familiar with the matter.

Controllers at Minneapolis-St. Paul International Airport were able to re-establish contact with the Airbus A320 before the plane, en route from San Diego, landed safely and without injuries, these people said.
Details are still emerging and the National Transportation Safety Board is expected to release information later Thursday. The Federal Aviation Administration is also investigating the incident. Based on preliminary indications, industry and government officials believe the crew may have briefly fallen asleep, flown past the airport and then circled back to land.
Northwest is a unit of Delta Air Lines Inc.

"The safety of our passengers and crew is our top priority," Delta said in a statement. "We are cooperating with the FAA and NTSB in their investigation as well as conducting our own internal investigation. The pilots have been relieved from active flying pending the completion of these investigations."

The incident comes as the FAA is seeking to update and rewrite decades-old rules governing how long commercial pilots can fly and remain on duty during a given period.
Wednesday night's incident is the second time in less than a week that a Delta cockpit crew was involved in a high-profile safety lapse. On Monday, a long-range Delta Boeing 767 en route from Brazil to Atlanta's Hartsfield International Airport landed on a taxiway, rather than the parallel runway. There were no injuries to any of the 182 passengers or 11 crew members.

The safety board is investigating whether pilot fatigue was an important factor. The crew had flown all night and was landing in darkness. The approach lights for the runway weren't turned on, however the lights on the runway surface were illuminated, according to the safety board.
Concerning the Minneapolis flight, it's not clear what the pilots' schedule was in the hours before it overshot the airport Wednesday night. But their work hours and sleep schedules in the preceding few days will be among the main issues examined by investigators.

In the case of the Delta crew that landed on the taxiway in Atlanta, the safety board said Wednesday that a third pilot aboard the twin-engine Boeing 767 had fallen ill during the flight and "was relocated to the cabin" before landing. The board said there was 10-miles visibility when the big jet touched down on the taxiway.

Earlier media reports indicated that the crew of the Boeing 767 had been temporarily removed from flying duties.

Write to Andy Pasztor at [email protected]

One hour isn't exactly brief when your doing 450 kts.

"Debating airline policy"

Pretty much sums up every flight!!!

$15 could have saved a career.

Compare Driver Alert Earpiece Alarm Prices - Shop Wrestling at mySimon

Don't leave home without it.

I'm going to be riding on this SAN-MSP flight in a few weeks. What eventually happened to the crew of the Mesa CRJ that fell asleep in Hawaii? We've definitely had people get dead out here on the left coast when they fell asleep and went out over the ocean.... Waking up when the motors ran out of gas.

Sounds like the crew of the ATL taxiway landing is covering for their buddy who was either in the jumpseat (unlikely) and watched/let it happen, or was supposed to be there, and now had a convenient reason why he wasn't.

The Mesa crew got canned. CA lost his medical.


As far as the ATL crew- what??

There is no "good" side to this. Either they fell asleep (bad) or weren't paying attention (equally bad). They landed at about 9:00pm local, so it wasn't that late. Sadly, I think the unemployment numbers just went up by two.

Anybody know if they commuted in that morning? If so, the "pre-flight crewrest" giant has just been awakened.

Did they scramble fighters?

I can't wait to hear the CVR on this one. Get ready for some interesting debates amongst yourselves.

Maybe they were too busy armwrestling:rolleyes: after the heated debate.....

Wait for the details.

or for the more frugal pilot:

5-Hour Energy shots- drinks with no sugar & zero net carbs

Tony;
IF they tried to cover something up, they are dead meat. They sequestered those FA's right away. The only way out of any goof up is full disclosure.

How about a good book? It is a way to stay awake in cruise.

Better than sitting there and hitting your head on the glareshield.

for the prosecution

what fun would that be then... what's the other thread at 32+ pages :rolleyes:

Manuals are considered good books?

Not an Airbus driver so I'm just asking out of curiosity, Boeings have the "Pilot Response" caution that turns into a warning with an aural if left unattended and it comes on after a while of no inputs from the pilots, do Airbus have something similar?



Kind of curious about the dispatchers flight tracking procedures and did the cabin attendants didn't find it odd that by their estimated time of arrival they were still at cruise??

Seems to me that there where a few more things at play here than just the pilots falling asleep and it certainly would be interesting to learn the details of this incident.

Who is to say that SELCAL Or ACARS did not wake them up.

Never said anything about the FOM being a good book.....

Also the Pilot response is not on the smaller jets

That stuff isn't cheap either.

I know most manuals say "no reading of non-company material" in the cockpit and I usually don't (most my legs are under 2 hours) , but something as simple as reading keeps your mind engaged and alert, especially on a long flight. I understand why the rule is there, for liability reasons. I doubt it will ever change, but I think a rule such as "Reading is allowed from 20 minutes after TOC to 20 minute before TOD" wouldn't compromise safety and keep crewmembers alert.

Maybe they all were asleep? :D

When I was a controller in the AF at Eglin, we had a controller on the midnight shift fall asleep at the scope and never took a overflight handoff from PNA approach. That boy paid the price for that. It happens (falling asleep) everywhere unfortunately.

Hoser
Roll Tide!

This stuff is all happening while management pushes for their precious SOC.
Hurry up. Faster. Quicker. Shortcut this. Finesse that. Time is money.
Listen to today's earnings call. SOC is all about revenue and "synergies".
Not a word about safety.

Maybe we should slow down just a bit.

Let's hope the FAA has not lost sight of the real purpose behind granting an airline operating certificate.

Standing by for regional vs. mainline battle...

I've never had one but know people that do. They say it works great. I believe it's less than $3 a bottle. How much is Starbucks?

Added: It's also a Michigan product

The Mesa guys were fired rather quickly, and without ceremony. The CA on that flight was a piece of trash anyway, so he did us a favor.

Please elaborate on the bolded part of your post above. The way I read it, you're saying they invented the medical emergency after they realized 6 eyes let a 767 land on a taxiway. 2 of those eyes belonging to a Check Airman.

Here's an interview with a passenger. He reports the pilots had been making announcements. Also says the "dark suits" removed a "case" from the cockpit on landing.What might that have been?

Ouch. Words fail. Retraining in the sim to not discuss airline policy, perhaps?

This one is pretty hard to defend on any level. If, in fact, this is actually what happened. I love the WSJ, but when it comes to aviation stories, I don't really believe anything I read in the newspapers.

I'm never one to rush to the defense of management, but I doubt that either of these two events had anything to do with management wanting to get SOC as fast as possible. FWIW, I have met RA twice in person. Once at our new hire dinner and once as a jumpseater, and both times he was emphatic about safety being our top prority.

Come one peoples. There's only one clear answer and you're all afraid to say it.

to be continued...............

Abduction!http://ufocasebook.com/xfilesalien.jpg

I didn't know it was made in Michigan. I think it is like 3 bucks a bottle, struck me as kinda pricey for 2oz. I have never tried it.

I don't drink coffee so I have no idea what Starbucks charges...probably 4 bucks. I just drink one of those giant bottles of water, the urge to pee keeps me awake.

2.13 for their largest daily brew!

Pilots still pay for Starbucks?
 

Didn't learn this at flight school or at the airline:
Did learn this during my current unemployment:

1. Purchase a Starbucks card, load $5, and register it online.
2. Save your last "paid for" cup, or pick one out of the trash. Your discretion.
3. Refills are forever free after that. $0.52 cent charge becomes $0.00 when you present your registered Starbucks card to the cashier.
4. Lifespan of reused cup is 4-5 refills. When cup deteriorates and develops heavy leak, request new cup, pour contents of leaking cup into new cup, and begin cycle at step #2.

Discuss pros and cons to stay awake during long flights.

But hey, I'm living in a van and have time to kill on APC attempting to encourage total strangers to crack a smile....

That is awesome, and sad that we have to resort to that at the same time. :eek:

Must have been former RJ pilots.......................;)

That's some of the best info I've ever read and yes I'm doing it now. Good man!

I just don't see how this is possible. One hour prior to ETA we start receiving calls from the FA's saying "What is our ETA?" - even though we already told them our ETA. I used to think this was a pain in the butt since all four or five FA's would individually call up on their own and ask the same question - from now on I don't think I will mind. :)

Scoop