Have bag fees affected aircraft loading?
10-25-2009 | 07:17 AM
#1
Thread Starter
Day puke
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,865
Likes: 0
From: Out.
Have bag fees affected aircraft loading?
Don't want to start the "Fees are good/bad" debate.
All I am asking is since fees started at your company, have people been using more carry-ons? If so, has this affected weight and balance calculations ( are the planes "lighter" on paper for example)?
All I am asking is since fees started at your company, have people been using more carry-ons? If so, has this affected weight and balance calculations ( are the planes "lighter" on paper for example)?
10-25-2009 | 07:25 AM
#2
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 6,215
Likes: 50
From: B-737NG preferably in first class with a glass of champagne and caviar
A few months back, our carrier has come up with the perfect scheme to fleece our passengers for more dough. A gate check bag disclaimer is on their website. Carryon bags the look suspiciously larger than life are put into the overhead bin tester at the boarding door. If the bag does not fit, then the passenger has to pony up more dough to check the bag onto the jet. From what I’ve witnessed it’s not a pretty sight.
10-25-2009 | 07:51 AM
#3
Line Holder
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 605
Likes: 7
From: The Right One
Did a DHD on a European carrier last week, said my carry on bag (flight kit)had to weigh less than 6 kilos, yes 6 kilos! Heck, it weighs almost 4 kilos empty. Ended up having to check it, at a charge to boot. Companies have discovered a cash cow, and now they are milking it. I calmly explained to the agent that their policy was going to cost them a customer, I don't think she got it, or cared one bit.
10-25-2009 | 07:54 AM
#4
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 6,215
Likes: 50
From: B-737NG preferably in first class with a glass of champagne and caviar
10-25-2009 | 08:06 AM
#5
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 295
Likes: 0
From: 717 FO >>>> 737 FO
Yes, Fly, it does affect the weight. Even though the standard weight of a passenger includes their carry-on items - putting their carry on items in a cargo area vs. the overhead bid affects the total weight. Therefore if you bring bags back into the cabin, from the cargo area, your total weight "on paper" goes down! Put them back into the cargo area - it goes up! "on paper"
Used to do this all the time on the SAAB!! because we still used paper!! ;-)
10-25-2009 | 08:11 AM
#6
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 4,196
Likes: 51
From: Legacy FO
From a weight and balance perspective, I don't think anything has changed. The companies use "wags" anyways to determine weight and balance. I think these wags are set for the worst case scenarios and as such, the jets seem to be well within weight and balance tolerances.
If anything, the charging for checked bags has meant delays in boarding. On full flight, the gate agents, ground crews, and FAs are busy gate checking bags that were too large or had no space left in the overhead bins. This had led to late departures not to mention some disgruntled passengers.
10-25-2009 | 08:14 AM
#7
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 4,196
Likes: 51
From: Legacy FO
One last thing. My CA and I were discussing how bags have increased in weight and size since the invention of roller boards. Back in the day, passengers and flight crew carried their bag(s). I guarantee you that if people today had to physically carry what they packed, the size and weight of those bags would dramatically reduce.
10-25-2009 | 08:30 AM
#8
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 1,413
Likes: 0
If I could weigh my MD-11, I'd be lucky to be within 5,000 lbs of the stated weight on the paperwork. Of course, the first issue would be the 240 lbs pilot weight (including brainbag). 
I've seen the pay for the last minute checked bag at gate. Especially not pretty if the bag would fit, but there is no more space.
From a weight and balance perspective, I don't think anything has changed. The companies use "wags" anyways to determine weight and balance. I think these wags are set for the worst case scenarios and as such, the jets seem to be well within weight and balance tolerances.
If anything, the charging for checked bags has meant delays in boarding. On full flight, the gate agents, ground crews, and FAs are busy gate checking bags that were too large or had no space left in the overhead bins. This had led to late departures not to mention some disgruntled passengers.
I've seen the pay for the last minute checked bag at gate. Especially not pretty if the bag would fit, but there is no more space.
From a weight and balance perspective, I don't think anything has changed. The companies use "wags" anyways to determine weight and balance. I think these wags are set for the worst case scenarios and as such, the jets seem to be well within weight and balance tolerances.
If anything, the charging for checked bags has meant delays in boarding. On full flight, the gate agents, ground crews, and FAs are busy gate checking bags that were too large or had no space left in the overhead bins. This had led to late departures not to mention some disgruntled passengers.
10-25-2009 | 09:04 AM
#9
Thread Starter
Day puke
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,865
Likes: 0
From: Out.
I think what Fly was asking was does it affect the overall weight - not the overall customer service aspect!
Yes, Fly, it does affect the weight. Even though the standard weight of a passenger includes their carry-on items - putting their carry on items in a cargo area vs. the overhead bid affects the total weight. Therefore if you bring bags back into the cabin, from the cargo area, your total weight "on paper" goes down! Put them back into the cargo area - it goes up! "on paper"
Used to do this all the time on the SAAB!! because we still used paper!! ;-)
Yes, Fly, it does affect the weight. Even though the standard weight of a passenger includes their carry-on items - putting their carry on items in a cargo area vs. the overhead bid affects the total weight. Therefore if you bring bags back into the cabin, from the cargo area, your total weight "on paper" goes down! Put them back into the cargo area - it goes up! "on paper"
Used to do this all the time on the SAAB!! because we still used paper!! ;-)
I work for a carrier who before a merger did not charge or bags. After the merger, the decision was made to charge for bags. And as such, the number of carry-ons increased.
From a weight and balance perspective, I don't think anything has changed. The companies use "wags" anyways to determine weight and balance. I think these wags are set for the worst case scenarios and as such, the jets seem to be well within weight and balance tolerances.
If anything, the charging for checked bags has meant delays in boarding. On full flight, the gate agents, ground crews, and FAs are busy gate checking bags that were too large or had no space left in the overhead bins. This had led to late departures not to mention some disgruntled passengers.
From a weight and balance perspective, I don't think anything has changed. The companies use "wags" anyways to determine weight and balance. I think these wags are set for the worst case scenarios and as such, the jets seem to be well within weight and balance tolerances.
If anything, the charging for checked bags has meant delays in boarding. On full flight, the gate agents, ground crews, and FAs are busy gate checking bags that were too large or had no space left in the overhead bins. This had led to late departures not to mention some disgruntled passengers.
I imagine a heavy +/- 5000 lbs fairly evenly distributed would not make much of a difference. But I remember a few years ago, the FAA increased standard weights following a turbo prop crash (1900 with aft cg if I recall). In ac which are fairly weight restricted, has anyone noticed the ability to carry additional pax/cargo? And has calculated cg shifted?
10-25-2009 | 09:49 AM
#10
Gets Weekends Off
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 4,196
Likes: 51
From: Legacy FO
I don't know how anyone would within reason be able to give you the answers to the questions you just asked. Loads and CGs vary from flight to flight. There's no way to predict it because there are so many variables.
The airlines have always used wags ... and these procedures are FAA approved. Until they pull out the scales and weigh every passenger and bag, this will continue to be the norm.
I believe the wags that are used are good enough to keep aircraft within tolerances. Yes, the FAA increased weight standards after B1900 crash. However, had the maintenance errors not occurred, it would not have crashed.
The airlines have always used wags ... and these procedures are FAA approved. Until they pull out the scales and weigh every passenger and bag, this will continue to be the norm.
I believe the wags that are used are good enough to keep aircraft within tolerances. Yes, the FAA increased weight standards after B1900 crash. However, had the maintenance errors not occurred, it would not have crashed.
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
RVSM Certified
Flight Schools and Training
22
02-27-2009 12:04 PM
