USAir FO suing flight attendants for defamation
02-02-2009, 07:47 AM
#1
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Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: CA
Posts: 397
USAir FO suing flight attendants for defamation
AmericaWest/USAirwaysPilotSuesFlightAttendantCrew
FLIGHT 851
It was a cold morning at Calgary International Airport on January 24, 2003. As temperatures dropped to minus 6.3°F. Flight attendants Brian, Paula, and Sue began boarding passengers onto US Flight 851. The three knew that the FAA prohibits flying while frost or ice is present on any wing surface. As they looked out the windows, they saw patches of frost along the wings.
This observation was verified by the Calgary Ground Crew, who wrote the following in an irregularity report:
“At 6:15, my deicing partner Jeff Switner approached a member of the flight crew and, asking if they were going to require a deice. They said no, that they were fine. We were both surprised, because we could see the frost on the wings and fuselage.”
Despite the presence of frost on the wings, the Capt and FO began pushing Flt 851 back for departure. Frantic to prevent any unsafe takeoff, the
FA’s approached the FO and told him that passengers had seen frost on the wings and were concerned about not de-icing. Flt 851 then pushed back into position and deiced.
With quick thinking, the FA’s averted a possible catastrophic safety violation. Yet, when they reported events of that day to the FAA, they weren’t hailed as heroes. They were sued.
THE LAWSUIT
On November 20, 2006, the first officer sued Brian, Paula, and Sue in Maricopa County, AZ. The original lawsuit alleged three different causes of action: Defamation, Tortious Interference With Contract, and Intentional Infliction of Emotional Distress.
At his deposition in March 2007, the FO admitted that frost was, in fact, present on the wings of the aircraft:
WHAT YOU CAN DO TO HELP
Brian, Paula, and Sue have paid for their legal defense out of their own pockets. Despite the fact that they were acting in their capacity as airline employees when they reported the events of January 24, 2003, the airline has so far refused to help them in any way with their defense. In fact, the airline has even refused a request from all the parties (even the first officer) that they be prevented from flying with the first officer who is suing them.
FA’s should be allowed to report safety violations, without the threat that they will be dragged into court and have to face the threat of a frivolous lawsuit. Please consider contributing to their legal defense fund, so that they can continue to fight for the right for anyone to report safety violation, whether that person be a member of the flight crew, ground crew, or simply a passenger.
Brian, Paula, and Sue have spent over $65,000 of their own money so far in defending against this meritless lawsuit. They are headed to trial in 2010 and need all the help they can get! Please consider helping them by clicking on the link below. This will direct you to the chipin link: www.helpflightattendantcrew.blogspot.com
FLIGHT 851
It was a cold morning at Calgary International Airport on January 24, 2003. As temperatures dropped to minus 6.3°F. Flight attendants Brian, Paula, and Sue began boarding passengers onto US Flight 851. The three knew that the FAA prohibits flying while frost or ice is present on any wing surface. As they looked out the windows, they saw patches of frost along the wings.
This observation was verified by the Calgary Ground Crew, who wrote the following in an irregularity report:
“At 6:15, my deicing partner Jeff Switner approached a member of the flight crew and, asking if they were going to require a deice. They said no, that they were fine. We were both surprised, because we could see the frost on the wings and fuselage.”
Despite the presence of frost on the wings, the Capt and FO began pushing Flt 851 back for departure. Frantic to prevent any unsafe takeoff, the
FA’s approached the FO and told him that passengers had seen frost on the wings and were concerned about not de-icing. Flt 851 then pushed back into position and deiced.
With quick thinking, the FA’s averted a possible catastrophic safety violation. Yet, when they reported events of that day to the FAA, they weren’t hailed as heroes. They were sued.
THE LAWSUIT
On November 20, 2006, the first officer sued Brian, Paula, and Sue in Maricopa County, AZ. The original lawsuit alleged three different causes of action: Defamation, Tortious Interference With Contract, and Intentional Infliction of Emotional Distress.
At his deposition in March 2007, the FO admitted that frost was, in fact, present on the wings of the aircraft:
WHAT YOU CAN DO TO HELP
Brian, Paula, and Sue have paid for their legal defense out of their own pockets. Despite the fact that they were acting in their capacity as airline employees when they reported the events of January 24, 2003, the airline has so far refused to help them in any way with their defense. In fact, the airline has even refused a request from all the parties (even the first officer) that they be prevented from flying with the first officer who is suing them.
FA’s should be allowed to report safety violations, without the threat that they will be dragged into court and have to face the threat of a frivolous lawsuit. Please consider contributing to their legal defense fund, so that they can continue to fight for the right for anyone to report safety violation, whether that person be a member of the flight crew, ground crew, or simply a passenger.
Brian, Paula, and Sue have spent over $65,000 of their own money so far in defending against this meritless lawsuit. They are headed to trial in 2010 and need all the help they can get! Please consider helping them by clicking on the link below. This will direct you to the chipin link: www.helpflightattendantcrew.blogspot.com
02-02-2009, 07:53 AM
#2
New Hire
Joined APC: Jan 2009
Posts: 9
Rumour was that one of the F/A's was the F/O's Ex-wife?
http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/3...cing-wing.html
http://www.pprune.org/rumours-news/3...cing-wing.html
02-02-2009, 08:09 AM
#3
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Thread Starter
Joined APC: Jul 2008
Position: CA
Posts: 397
How does he expect them to come up with that money... I think they did the right thing, I'm surprise USAir isn't backing them up... They should bring this to the media and have the media work for them
02-02-2009, 08:26 AM
#4
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Joined APC: Mar 2008
Posts: 2,919
Originally Posted by EmbraerFlyer
AmericaWest/USAirwaysPilotSuesFlightAttendantCrew
FLIGHT 851
It was a cold morning at Calgary International Airport on January 24, 2003. As temperatures dropped to minus 6.3°F. Flight attendants Brian, Paula, and Sue began boarding passengers onto US Flight 851. The three knew that the FAA prohibits flying while frost or ice is present on any wing surface. As they looked out the windows, they saw patches of frost along the wings.
This observation was verified by the Calgary Ground Crew, who wrote the following in an irregularity report:
“At 6:15, my deicing partner Jeff Switner approached a member of the flight crew and, asking if they were going to require a deice. They said no, that they were fine. We were both surprised, because we could see the frost on the wings and fuselage.”
Despite the presence of frost on the wings, the Capt and FO began pushing Flt 851 back for departure. Frantic to prevent any unsafe takeoff, the
FA’s approached the FO and told him that passengers had seen frost on the wings and were concerned about not de-icing. Flt 851 then pushed back into position and deiced.
With quick thinking, the FA’s averted a possible catastrophic safety violation. Yet, when they reported events of that day to the FAA, they weren’t hailed as heroes. They were sued.
THE LAWSUIT
On November 20, 2006, the first officer sued Brian, Paula, and Sue in Maricopa County, AZ. The original lawsuit alleged three different causes of action: Defamation, Tortious Interference With Contract, and Intentional Infliction of Emotional Distress.
At his deposition in March 2007, the FO admitted that frost was, in fact, present on the wings of the aircraft:
WHAT YOU CAN DO TO HELP
Brian, Paula, and Sue have paid for their legal defense out of their own pockets. Despite the fact that they were acting in their capacity as airline employees when they reported the events of January 24, 2003, the airline has so far refused to help them in any way with their defense. In fact, the airline has even refused a request from all the parties (even the first officer) that they be prevented from flying with the first officer who is suing them.
FA’s should be allowed to report safety violations, without the threat that they will be dragged into court and have to face the threat of a frivolous lawsuit. Please consider contributing to their legal defense fund, so that they can continue to fight for the right for anyone to report safety violation, whether that person be a member of the flight crew, ground crew, or simply a passenger.
Brian, Paula, and Sue have spent over $65,000 of their own money so far in defending against this meritless lawsuit. They are headed to trial in 2010 and need all the help they can get! Please consider helping them by clicking on the link below. This will direct you to the chipin link: www.helpflightattendantcrew.blogspot.com
FLIGHT 851
It was a cold morning at Calgary International Airport on January 24, 2003. As temperatures dropped to minus 6.3°F. Flight attendants Brian, Paula, and Sue began boarding passengers onto US Flight 851. The three knew that the FAA prohibits flying while frost or ice is present on any wing surface. As they looked out the windows, they saw patches of frost along the wings.
This observation was verified by the Calgary Ground Crew, who wrote the following in an irregularity report:
“At 6:15, my deicing partner Jeff Switner approached a member of the flight crew and, asking if they were going to require a deice. They said no, that they were fine. We were both surprised, because we could see the frost on the wings and fuselage.”
Despite the presence of frost on the wings, the Capt and FO began pushing Flt 851 back for departure. Frantic to prevent any unsafe takeoff, the
FA’s approached the FO and told him that passengers had seen frost on the wings and were concerned about not de-icing. Flt 851 then pushed back into position and deiced.
With quick thinking, the FA’s averted a possible catastrophic safety violation. Yet, when they reported events of that day to the FAA, they weren’t hailed as heroes. They were sued.
THE LAWSUIT
On November 20, 2006, the first officer sued Brian, Paula, and Sue in Maricopa County, AZ. The original lawsuit alleged three different causes of action: Defamation, Tortious Interference With Contract, and Intentional Infliction of Emotional Distress.
At his deposition in March 2007, the FO admitted that frost was, in fact, present on the wings of the aircraft:
WHAT YOU CAN DO TO HELP
Brian, Paula, and Sue have paid for their legal defense out of their own pockets. Despite the fact that they were acting in their capacity as airline employees when they reported the events of January 24, 2003, the airline has so far refused to help them in any way with their defense. In fact, the airline has even refused a request from all the parties (even the first officer) that they be prevented from flying with the first officer who is suing them.
FA’s should be allowed to report safety violations, without the threat that they will be dragged into court and have to face the threat of a frivolous lawsuit. Please consider contributing to their legal defense fund, so that they can continue to fight for the right for anyone to report safety violation, whether that person be a member of the flight crew, ground crew, or simply a passenger.
Brian, Paula, and Sue have spent over $65,000 of their own money so far in defending against this meritless lawsuit. They are headed to trial in 2010 and need all the help they can get! Please consider helping them by clicking on the link below. This will direct you to the chipin link: www.helpflightattendantcrew.blogspot.com
It's acceptable to take off with a small amount of frost on the aircraft wing. The rule of thumb most pilots use is if you can see through the frost to the skin of the aircraft then it is acceptable.
Anything thicker than that is usually when it's time to visit the deice pad.
Personally I don't plan on supporting either side since I don't know all the facts or details and I personally think this is the type of thing that should be worked out with a professional flight crew.
02-02-2009, 09:11 AM
#5
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Joined APC: Feb 2006
Position: A320 CA
Posts: 973
Originally Posted by DeadHead
How much frost are we talking about?
It's acceptable to take off with a small amount of frost on the aircraft wing. The rule of thumb most pilots use is if you can see through the frost to the skin of the aircraft then it is acceptable.
Anything thicker than that is usually when it's time to visit the deice pad.
.
It's acceptable to take off with a small amount of frost on the aircraft wing. The rule of thumb most pilots use is if you can see through the frost to the skin of the aircraft then it is acceptable.
Anything thicker than that is usually when it's time to visit the deice pad.
.
I don't know which airline you fly for, but at NWA (and DAL?) we are prohibited from taking off with ANY frost on the wings/tail. Some frost is allowed on the body as long as it does not extend below the windows. Light frost is acceptable under the wings of some airplanes (DC-9) due to cooling/condensation of the fuel tanks...not normally a problem in the winter
Bottom line got frost? - get deiced (besides we're paid by the minute aren't we?)
02-02-2009, 09:17 AM
#6
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Position: B757/767
Posts: 13,088
Originally Posted by reddog25
Bottom line got frost? - get deiced (besides we're paid by the minute aren't we?)
02-02-2009, 09:32 AM
#7
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Joined APC: Jan 2008
Position: A-320
Posts: 784
Originally Posted by DeadHead
How much frost are we talking about?
It's acceptable to take off with a small amount of frost on the aircraft wing. The rule of thumb most pilots use is if you can see through the frost to the skin of the aircraft then it is acceptable.
Anything thicker than that is usually when it's time to visit the deice pad.
Personally I don't plan on supporting either side since I don't know all the facts or details and I personally think this is the type of thing that should be worked out with a professional flight crew.
It's acceptable to take off with a small amount of frost on the aircraft wing. The rule of thumb most pilots use is if you can see through the frost to the skin of the aircraft then it is acceptable.
Anything thicker than that is usually when it's time to visit the deice pad.
Personally I don't plan on supporting either side since I don't know all the facts or details and I personally think this is the type of thing that should be worked out with a professional flight crew.
02-02-2009, 09:34 AM
#8
New Hire
Joined APC: Jan 2009
Posts: 9
More to the story
Dunno,
I think theres more to the story then the flight crew didn't want to de-ice and the cabin crew did.
From what I have read elsewhere the FAA investigated the incident and no action was taken against anyone.
My thought would be for a slander/Libel lawsuit to have a chance of success....something else had to have occurred.
If the cabin crew...upon returning to base...informed everyone that the FO was the dumbest SOB alive and unsafe...if they proceeded to tell that to everyone that would listen....well then you may have something.
I don't think the lawsuit has anything to do with the "event" and probably everything to do with what went on AFTER the event.
The lawsuit mentions it was 2003 when the "event" took place...and 2006 when the lawsuit was filed.
Lots of time for things to be said and done. I think your dealing with human emotions, ego's, and rivalry's not a safety of flight issue.
I seriously doubt the cabin crew are being sued for speaking up DURING the "event". I'm betting they are being sued for not shutting up AFTER the "event".
I'm sure some will disagree and this is by no means a negative reflection on cabin crew.
For example: If flight crew were maliciously spreading a story about "jane" the F/A who gets wild on overnights...I'd be the first to say hang on...what the hell? If "jane" sued she'd be well within her rights to do so.
By the same token I believe its down right silly to ignore the advise of any crew member.
I think theres more to the story then the flight crew didn't want to de-ice and the cabin crew did.
From what I have read elsewhere the FAA investigated the incident and no action was taken against anyone.
My thought would be for a slander/Libel lawsuit to have a chance of success....something else had to have occurred.
If the cabin crew...upon returning to base...informed everyone that the FO was the dumbest SOB alive and unsafe...if they proceeded to tell that to everyone that would listen....well then you may have something.
I don't think the lawsuit has anything to do with the "event" and probably everything to do with what went on AFTER the event.
The lawsuit mentions it was 2003 when the "event" took place...and 2006 when the lawsuit was filed.
Lots of time for things to be said and done. I think your dealing with human emotions, ego's, and rivalry's not a safety of flight issue.
I seriously doubt the cabin crew are being sued for speaking up DURING the "event". I'm betting they are being sued for not shutting up AFTER the "event".
I'm sure some will disagree and this is by no means a negative reflection on cabin crew.
For example: If flight crew were maliciously spreading a story about "jane" the F/A who gets wild on overnights...I'd be the first to say hang on...what the hell? If "jane" sued she'd be well within her rights to do so.
By the same token I believe its down right silly to ignore the advise of any crew member.
02-02-2009, 09:41 AM
#9
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Originally Posted by DeadHead
Personally I don't plan on supporting either side since I don't know all the facts or details .....
02-02-2009, 09:55 AM
#10
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Originally Posted by reddog25
we are prohibited from taking off with ANY frost on the wings/tail.
Bottom line got frost? - get deiced (besides we're paid by the minute aren't we?)
Bottom line got frost? - get deiced (besides we're paid by the minute aren't we?)
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