Our company's deicing manual states that with a SMALL AMOUNT of frost/hoarefrost is acceptable as long as you are able to see the color of the paint through the frost itself.
Usually on the underbelly of the wing by the fuel tank, it's fairly common and acceptable to depart in this condition.

Again I said a SMALL AMOUNT of TRANPARENT Frost in which the color and body of the aircraft's skin can clearly be discerned. If the frost's thickness exceeds the point of transparency and becomes a translucent opaque then it the aircraft should be deiced.

Additionally, large amounts of frost or any other type of frozen/snowy accumulations on the aircraft also merit a visit to the deice pad.

If any doubt exists or the wing is questionable at best then by all means deicing the aircraft is the appropriate procedure.

That being said I don't agree with the flight attendants reporting the incident to the FAA, why......Because the Captain and the First Officer did not do anything wrong. The Flight Attendants were concerned about the frost so the flight crew went to the de-ice pad. You can't violate the flight crew for something the MIGHT have done.
Had they refused to deice to the point were the flight attendants refused to fly then I can see a major issue unraveling, but that didn't happen.
Flight attendants raised their concerns and the pilots remedied the situation.

Granted the FO was careless in his walkaround, but again that is an Inter-Flight Crew issue which should have been mediated and remedied by the Captain.

If there is a personal aspect to this entire lawsuit, then it wouldn't behoove anyone not to defend or start a grassroots campaign to help either side.

 

I don't believe the lawsuit is about if there was or was not frost on the wings. The flight attendants reported a concern about frost which they should do every time they see a issue they believe can effect flight safety. The flight crew then had the aircraft deiced. Should have been the end of the story however the flight attendants decided to take action that had career implications for the FO by calling the FAA. Hence the lawsuit. If every airline employee called the FAA every time there was a violation we would never turn a wheel. There had to be more to the story for the flight attendants to attempt to take career action against the crew. When you do that you had better have your ducks in line and be very sure of what you are doing.

 

I guess I don't,
Thanks alot for embarrassing me on the internet.

I will go study my FARs now.

 

Where do you work?

 

Why do you want to know and why does it matter?

 

I have seen times were a report is written on another crewmember after the fact. No problem solving involved at the time. Many times it happens because of a lack of understanding of the orig. situation. Many times is is caused by someone wanting to grandstand with no results but hard feelings.

 

Don't know where you came up with this propwash, but the FAA and most airlines operate under the "clean aircraft concept". That means NO frost of any kind on flying surfaces with the exception of a small amount under the wings at some carriers and some aircraft.

 

Clean Aircraft Concept
The airline industry, in concert with the FAA, is operating with a clean aircraft concept to minimize the effects of all forms of frozen contamination on aircraft surfaces.
Takeoff is prohibited when frost, ice, snow or slush is adhering to the wings, control surfaces, engine inlets, or other critical surfaces of the aircraft.
•Do not rely on air flow during takeoff roll to remove frozen
precipitation that may be adhering to the aircraft.
•A coating of frost up to 1/8 inch thick on the lower wing surface, below the fuel tank area, is permissible provided it is caused by cold soaked fuel.
•A thin coating of frost is permitted on the fuselage, provided letter and paint lines are visible through the frost.

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Copy and Pasted from my company's operations manual.

Is it safe to say that maybe, just maybe different companies have slightly different operating procedures?

Before you start bashing my company, I assure you our manuals were approved from the FAA. So if you have a problem with the above excerpt that make your complaint with the FAA.

I love the way the Aztec flies

 

I'd point out that the situation of frost on the UNDER side of the wing in the fuel tank area relates to operations above freezing.

Below freezing is a different matter.

As an aside: How is ratting out your fellow crew members to the Feds any different then crossing the picket line?

If you feel that a crew member is a hazard...and will continue to be a hazard..report him up the chain of command.

So the cabin crew got in a ****ing match with the FO or vis a versa....we should help pay thier legal bills?

Sounds like they all need to grow up.

 

So my friends and family could avoid flying on your airline.