LostInPA

Airdale, what leads you to think that it's all about the mainline pilots?

Study some history of how we ended up in this outsourced-flying mess
currently upon us. Since you really loved wholly-owneds, start with the background of PDT. Formed in 1962 in HGR, and became (as Henson Airlines) basically one of the pioneers of the 'Express', 'Commuter', etc. concept. You know why? Because the smaller markets that Henson served couldn't support mainline ALG service! Even under market regulation. Not some vast conspiracy to undercut the mainline pilot groups.

Back then, similar carriers flew BE99's, Navajos, Twin Otters, etc. Do you think that in the late 1960's/early 1970's, the 'mainline' groups such as DL/ALG/UA/Pan Am were foaming at the mouth to get their 'outsourced' Beech 99's/DH6's on property because they 'took mainline jobs away'? I'm not old enough to speak of that time when it has happening, but I'd venture to say 'no' would be the answer to that one. It was OK to have 'commuter' subsidiaries back almost as a B-scale, but as scope was eroded over the years, then we have a crisis as aircraft sizes increase.

The rest is past. C99's became B1900's became SF340s/DH8's, then we had the 50-seat RJ/70/90 seat RJ and the E-Jets. The problem of 'outsourcing' flying could have been reigned in years before today's group of regional pilots were ever conceived. To summarize, don't blame the people who have been flying turboprops on the same routes since you were born.

theHub

I think of all the express carriers out there, PDT fits it's role better than anybody. We fly mostly 37 seat turboprops, with a few 50 seat turboprops thrown in there. The majority of of our routes are perfect for the Dash. If we can get those RJ's off of the CLT-AVL type routes and replace them with all Dash 8's, then all should be good. That is not a jet route. That isn't a mainline rout either, maybe it was back in the day, but the Dash 8 fits it perfectly. The RJ's are flying routes that should be at mainline. Regional flights should be exactly what PDT does, turboprops jumping around short hops feeding the hubs, not doing CLT-LGA, CLT- ROC, CLT-MEM-PHX, CLT to anything west of TN! So this is why I don't understand why mainline hates PDT so much. I haven't really had to many poor experiences with the mainline crews, mostly because they don't know who we are but mainline as a collective, actions speak louder than words. Just an opinion.

dashtrash300

Well said....and we will see what they do if and when oil does go back up. I hope they park the RJs.

CaptKrunch

How about routes such as CLT-XNA? That is way to long to do on a Dash and it wont fill a 737 or a E190? what then? The CRJ's have a place just like the dash does. However I agree with you the CRJ should not be doing CLT-AVL,CAE, GSO, PGV and a few others. But what about those same cities from PHL? Those could be served on a 200/700.

theHub

GSO works for the larger jets because the loads allow for it. I hated that flight in the Dash 8 100's because we always had to leave some behind, especially if an alternate was needed. The 300 worked well. And what E190? I don't see the remaining 190's on property past early 2010. Of course there are some routes that don't fill mainline equipment, but I think the 319 could do this or the 733. Even the 190 if it stayed around. My point was that it feels like mainline has it out for the Wholly Owned carriers. This bit them in the but years ago because them not wanting us to fly opened the door for the contract carriers to explode! I don't feel like we get a whole lot of respect from anyone just because we fly the Dash 8. I just wounder if they realize that the jets, including PSA, are doing routes that should be done by mainline, not necessarily PDT. If a RJ is needed for the route, then I do hope they give it to PSA, but PDT isn't taking their flying.

aa73

It doesn't matter what kind of RJ does that route as long as the pilots are paid what they're worth. Back in the day, Piedmont 737s flew those routes with pilots paid appropriately. Want to put an RJ on it, fine... but they shold be making what the old Piedmont pilots used to make on it.

CaptKrunch

The flying public wants to be able to fly from CLT to Podunk small town 12 times a day. And as we know the airlines can't just say no. If you think you can fill a A320 4 times a day to a small town then i bet it would be on a mainline jet. This is where the regional jet comes in. Please explain how you feel mainline has it out for PSA/PDT?
I agree with you except where a CRJ guy should be getting paid what a 737 guy got years ago. Even i know with the current cost structure at the airlines this would BK them all. But I do think RJ guys and even Dash guys need to get paid more. 18K a year to start is stupid.

aa73

Why should it BK the airlines? Did Piedmont go bankrupt paying those wages?

The question you should be asking yourself is this. If Piedmont was profitable flying those routes in a 737, why shouldn't a Republic or any regional be, as well?

My answer is that the airlines did this to themselves. In their frenzy for crewing high cost aircraft (RJs) at the lowest common denominator, they boxed themselves in. Now they can't even make money in a stand-alone RJ operation, and have to subscribe to the "fee per departure" paid by big brother.

Solution, put a bigger aircraft fewer times a day, pay the crew what they're worth, match the market with the demand, and voila, recipe for success. Exactly what Piedmont (and most other major airlines) used to do back in the day.

Oh wait, we wouldn't have airline pilot infighting and divide/conquer between pilot groups if we did that. Which is exactly what they want.

JMO.
73

flyharm

Sometimes, yes! I have 25 years at US Airways and fly Capt 737 out of CLT. I used to fly Intl on the 767. I always offer first class to my jumpseaters, and contrary to perception, most of us here remember the days of night freight and the 3.5 years I did in the SD-330. for the record, we have agonized under a Ch 11 contract for many years now, and we are just in a continuous battle with mgmt. There is no thought given to US vs. Piedmont or Mesa etc in particular. our scope clause was violated, taking jobs away from mainline, so we are not a happy lot in general, but on the job we manage to have a good time for the most part. This sompany is anti-employee, and morale suffers, especially with the ongoing merger problems. Back on the Shorts, I felt the same as you. But I now realize that there is so much time and energy consumed by fighting the company and living daily life (busier as we get older, I'm 51) that there is not time nor energy left over to, as was said, fight for everyone's rights at the regionals. Nor could we even hope to fight for rights for wholly owned when we at US Airways have over 400 outstanding grievances, and the company breaks our contract on a daily basis. This career has not worked out for many of us as expected, tho my old roommate "Jeff" is enjoying fame after downing some Geese (along with his AB). I can only offer that you fly professionally, enjoy the flying as it comes your way, and keep up a polished resume and an upbeat attitude. I wish you a better career than I have had after 4 mergers, but I am not complaining, only trying to give some insight. There have been mergers since day one in the airlines, and always will be. Best of luck, fly safe.