Glad I live in Hoboken , about time you miserable commuters paid as much for a housing & taxes that I have too

I keed I keed

 

At least you still have good live music on Washington St. Quit yer b1tchin'

 

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I see all the vitriol about the commuting issue coming to the surface but Exactly WHAT would you DO about it were it to become LAW?? Congress is looking at the VAST Majority of workers INCLUDING executives that have to live near their places of employment. In their Eyes they see the problem as If you Work somewhere maybe you should LIVE near there as well. That might NOT be popular to Pilots BUT. Living Near a Hub of your operation might NOT be too much to ask if the question is put to you "right". I work for United. When I worked @ SFO I lived in a reasonable distance form SFO though there were guys who lived nearly 100 miles away from SFO and Came to work Daily. They bid where they wanted to Live when the opportunity (and seniority) came. Some that started @ SFO now live in Denver Los Angeles, Seattle, Portland, OR., Chicago, New York, Washington and Boston. Many of them are NOT from those area but they live there just the same. There IS no inherent "Right" for Pilots to have to commute and not have a local address Near a Hub of your Airline. But Pilot's can't even seem to manage to form a SINGLE Strategy for their profession. Doctors Have the AMA, Lawyers Have the American Bar Assn. Pilots have NO such association to which they belong and support. You can't even agree that an Air Transport Rating is or should Be the entry point to become a "True" Airline Pilot. Or that having an Under-Graduate Degree is even Necessary!! Until you do, you will NEVER achieve the respect you think you're deserving of. Hell! Even Truck Drivers have the "Teamsters". Until Airline Pilots are ALL pulling on the SAME "end of the rope" you'll CONTINUE to be "Mis-represented, Lied to, Whipsawn, and Generally Abused". And you Bring it upon yourselves. One guy flies "by the Book" and at least Half of the rest of the group is looking for HIM to be "Canned"! Many are plotting their "number" IF he gets "Canned"! And you wonder WHY Management isn't afraid of you?? A National organization FOR Airline Pilots is NOT a Union. That's a Local Issue. The Lack of Nationwide Standards is your Problem. Any "Tom", "Dick","Harry" or John Travolta who can Earn,Beg,Borrow, or Steal can become an airline Pilot! Because the bottom Line is "Money"!! Not until that Bottom Line is DEMONSTRATED Education,Skill, Knowledge, and Proficiency will you gain the pretige and respect of your chosen Profession. Simple as THAT. Being an Airline Pilot Should come with something More than "I've got the Hours". And I got the JOB.. It SHOULD also come with an "Honorific" like a Phd. entitles a person of letters to addessed as "Doctor" William Tell. Not just Bill Tell you "Buttwipe". I met Justice Thurgood Marshall and I addressed Him as "Justice Marshall" untill he told me to stop it. Any Airline Captain should be addressed As "Captain" William Tell ,Atr. Also as a man or woman of "Letters". Then and ONLY then Will the respect you seek come about and be followed by the proper renumeration as well. Am I smoking Something?? Could be, but whether you AGREE with me or NOT. How FAR am I from the absolute TRUTH?!?

 

Those numbers are dwindling fast. It's one thing to "do your job for half your pay" for a few years to build time, but it's another to do it for an entire career. Before the economy took out most of the non-flying jobs, about half of Eagle's FO attrition was due to pilots who saw no future in aviation. Ask about any pilot who is a father if he'd recommend it to their kid. Most will not for the same reason there are less and less young people willing to shell out $150,000 for a $20,000/year job.


That said, I think many of pilots here are overly worried about the commuting issue. Think about it. The same group who are complaining about the "500 hour wonders" need to remember that those same low paid pilots can't afford to move to their domicile for a $20,000 job. They'll quit and find another career. Airplanes don't fly themselves so all those RJs, puddle-jumpers and other "commuter" aircraft will be parked. Think the Senators and Congressmen will recognize there is a problem when they can no longer fly to their hometown? Think businessmen won't raise a ruckus with Congress when commuters and mainline aircraft services are cut for a lack of pilots? Economics will solve this problem and it is up to Congress and airline management to figure out how to entice pilots to stick with a job that pays so little.

The solution I see forthcoming is to make commuting part of the duty day. How airline scheduling will work this out will take some doing but I don't see commuting going away. The order was to find a solution, not get rid of commuting. Commutable lines is a solution.

 

Don't forget that people have to move due to getting a new job/promoted/reassigned/etc. all the time, in every industy.

I don't think we'll generate a lot of sympathy for having to move every couple of years--especially from the military folks. A requirement to live in domicile is not a stretch, by any means.

 

how in the world are they going to enforce commuting rules? this is a serious question. if all it is, is having a local address, i see 2000 pilots all listing the same crappy apartment and dividing the rent 2000 ways.

 

True, but again, the economics of the situation will drive the results. Pilots don't have to move for their job nor are they obligated to fly for a living. All they have to do is say "**** you, I quit" and go find another job closer to home. While those pilots who $100,000+ jobs and decent schedules would be less likely to quit, those First Officers at regional airlines flying for less than school teacher pay might find an alternative career both more lucrative and easier on their family and social life.

 

This cannot be enforced without curtailing jumpseat priv's.

 

I'm thinking that as a worst case scenerio, we can let this typical 10-minute government temper tantrum about commuting run its course. Management dances around the 'cost of living adjustment' issue in pilot pay by talking up the concept of commuting.

Looking at how practically every carrier bases in ridiculous cost of living areas I'd say that even management may push Congress to back off this initiative. Because after all, if a crew member is fatigued, wrong as it is, management tries to throw the blame our way.

A two-leg commuter to an outstation base,
-Lost

 

Ultimately, the ATA is going to be with us, not against us, on this. If junior FO's (especially regional FOs) actually have to live in base, starting pay is going to have to go up. There aren't enough trust fund kids out there, and I really don't think folks are going to shell out $80-100K for a job that will require them to live in a slum tenement. A few will of course, but nowhere near enough.

Also if pilots have to pack up and move everytime they upgrade/transition/etc then (most) spouses are not going to be able to hold down a good job...pilot pay will have to go up to compensate.