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Dougdrvr 03-08-2010 08:12 AM


Originally Posted by G-Dog (Post 775280)
I will give you lower-paid, but less experienced? This person has no clue of my experience level. Even the 500 hour wonder still has to pass the same checks as a 10,000 hour pilot. ILS approaches are the same for everyone last time I checked, but you would rather back up a reporter who knows nothing about the industry.

If I read this correctly, it seems that 10,000 hours is simply 500 hours twenty times. Is this a correct interpretation of your philosophy? Interesting.

MD80 03-08-2010 08:25 AM


Originally Posted by G-Dog (Post 775280)
I will give you lower-paid, but less experienced? This person has no clue of my experience level. Even the 500 hour wonder still has to pass the same checks as a 10,000 hour pilot. ILS approaches are the same for everyone last time I checked, but you would rather back up a reporter who knows nothing about the industry.


I could shoot a ILS to CAT 2 minimums before a took my instrument rating. Experience is all about flying the airplane and handling an abnormal in a calm professional way. Knowing how to pick the right and wrong direction to fly around/over a TRW.

Flying a PC is the minimum standard, flying for 20 years and not scaring a passenger or damaging a aircraft is experience.

MD80 03-08-2010 08:42 AM


Originally Posted by ThrustMonkey (Post 775298)
Look the RAH guys are tired of hearing the same constant crying about it just as you are sick of the lame "its capitalism" response. I think its total crap what BB has done to the pilots at YX and F9 so far and I don't support that. But frankly the sentiment from many of the YX posters and some F9 posters is the RAH pilots should just shut up, roll over and pee on themselves because all the big bad "experienced" pilots are looming over them now. Frankly that attitude is elitist and weak and your going to get pushback from people if you continue to beat that drum.


In my opinion, the Republic EXCO and BB are sleeping in bed together. Something is not right with your union and all those grievances in a holding pattern.

The Midwest and Frontier pilots just want you to stop peeing yourself and joint us in dealing with BB.

G-Dog 03-08-2010 09:29 AM


Originally Posted by MD80 (Post 775342)
I could shoot a ILS to CAT 2 minimums before a took my instrument rating. Experience is all about flying the airplane and handling an abnormal in a calm professional way. Knowing how to pick the right and wrong direction to fly around/over a TRW.

Flying a PC is the minimum standard, flying for 20 years and not scaring a passenger or damaging a aircraft is experience.

I see what you are saying, but this still does not address the generalization of pilots over at RAH. Articles should not be written in such a way that makes people believe that a RAH operated aircraft is unsafe. American airlines had a bad run for a couple of weeks a few months back, but we(the general public) do not think they are bad pilots.


Originally Posted by MD80 (Post 775357)
In my opinion, the Republic EXCO and BB are sleeping in bed together. Something is not right with your union and all those grievances in a holding pattern.

The Midwest and Frontier pilots just want you to stop peeing yourself and joint us in dealing with BB.

This issue(grievances) is known by the pilot group. It is embarrassing. I am sure it will be addressed as soon as the dust settles on the new local and integration, I can assure you of that fact.

DeltaPaySoon 03-08-2010 09:57 AM


Originally Posted by G-Dog (Post 775375)
I see what you are saying, but this still does not address the generalization of pilots over at RAH. Articles should not be written in such a way that makes people believe that a RAH operated aircraft is unsafe. American airlines had a bad run for a couple of weeks a few months back, but we(the general public) do not think they are bad pilots.



The FAA gets away with selling the public that safety and fatalities are directly linked and ONLY those two are linked. This is an abomination. The skies aren't safer because of less fatalities. IMO, we're closer to fatalities on a daily basis much more frequently than in the past. For a number of reasons:

-Overall competence (experience)
-Training (before being hired at a 121 carrier...and some after)
-Complacency (pay, QOL, whatever....it doesn't matter)
-Scheduling

You can NOT expect safety and the competence of a flight crew to remain the same when any, or all, of the above goes down like it has over the last 15 years. It's not logical, nor correct.

If the public were shown the truth that fatalities are much more likely to happen these days than in the past, they would have a much different opinion.

And yes, I can qualify that statement!

I've seen it. I've seen it in the box and I've seen it on the line. The level of competence from simple everyday flying to extreme weather is much lower and my confidence in new hires to the industry is next to nill. I'm not, at all, saying that the pilots are bad, they just simply aren't ready when the 121 regionals hire them if they are fresh out of school.

The reason fatalities aren't higher is NOT because it's a safer environment. It's because people don't want to die. Again, IMO, we are closer to fatalities today because of simple mistakes and those things listed above than we ever were (more planes, more chances for mistakes).

Now, it SOUNDS like the FAA is looking to make changes that should help in a lot of areas but until they do......

A reporter may not have a direct line to credibility on competence but a training captain that's been in the industry in one way or the other 20 years should.

abc123 03-08-2010 01:36 PM


This whole deal is going in the history books as one of the greatest business blunders in aviation
So in your version, SW buys F9/Lynx, hands 800 pilots jobs, pay raises, all the pleasantries that current SW pilots have without interviews, type ratings, Turbine PIC time, ATP certificates, etc. SW, praised for their "culture" simply lets in 800 people, a lot of whom aren't qualified per SW's min's, a lot of whom were shot down in interviews with SW, and a lot of them whom wouldn't pass the interview and they all live happily ever after. SW didn't need the F9 pilots and they didn't want the F9 pilots. They would have figured a way to allow the fewest amount of them over there as possible, and then quickly would fire the ones that made it over during their probation period. They don't wan't there culture messed up with 800 people they don't even know. And who can blame them.

Your opinion of where you work, or want to work, doesn't make anything a blunder. Although the future may not be great for F9??? at least for now they have their recalls back, new upgrade classes running, new airplanes coming, scheduled payraises and new destinations to fly to instead of selling their homes, moving back with their parents, setting up COBRA, and applying for unemployment benefits and entry level jobs.

Got it!

sizzlechest 03-08-2010 02:36 PM


Originally Posted by Dougdrvr (Post 774942)
Rumor has it, they are going to start hiring off the street soon. Maybe they will go back to this place:

ATP Flight School: Republic Airways Airline Pilot Hiring Partnership


That guy hasn't been the DO at Republic for years.... ATP cons people by changing the date of the interview to make it look fresh. Do some research first.

CHQ Pilot 03-08-2010 03:19 PM


Originally Posted by abc123 (Post 775452)
So in your version, SW buys F9/Lynx, hands 800 pilots jobs, pay raises, all the pleasantries that current SW pilots have without interviews, type ratings, Turbine PIC time, ATP certificates, etc. SW, praised for their "culture" simply lets in 800 people, a lot of whom aren't qualified per SW's min's, a lot of whom were shot down in interviews with SW, and a lot of them whom wouldn't pass the interview and they all live happily ever after. SW didn't need the F9 pilots and they didn't want the F9 pilots. They would have figured a way to allow the fewest amount of them over there as possible, and then quickly would fire the ones that made it over during their probation period. They don't wan't there culture messed up with 800 people they don't even know. And who can blame them.

Your opinion of where you work, or want to work, doesn't make anything a blunder. Although the future may not be great for F9??? at least for now they have their recalls back, new upgrade classes running, new airplanes coming, scheduled payraises and new destinations to fly to instead of selling their homes, moving back with their parents, setting up COBRA, and applying for unemployment benefits and entry level jobs.

Got it!


SWA Management remarked how they liked the attitude that the F9 employees brought with them, especially how they as a whole stepped up when faced with BK. There are always bad apples in EVERY pilot group, but it was not SWA or SWAPAs intention to purge the ranks. That was the whole point of having an integration plan in effect before SWA moved along farther in the process. The F9 pilots would have become pilots on the SWAPA list and would have had the same rights as any SWAPA pilot. SWA knew there would be employees that would be disgruntled by loosing the brand name they worked so hard for just like you would find during any transaction. The F9 employees probably wouldn't be filing out unemployment or COBRA, but SWA was not going to deal in absolutes of employment especially in the middle of one of the largest downturns in the industry. They made a bid and things didn't work out. Trying to portray a situation where there would not be any F9 employees left is just false. You don't know the SWA culture if you think that is how they operate.

LuvJockey 03-08-2010 03:20 PM


Originally Posted by abc123 (Post 775452)
So in your version, SW buys F9/Lynx, hands 800 pilots jobs, pay raises, all the pleasantries that current SW pilots have without interviews, type ratings, Turbine PIC time, ATP certificates, etc. SW, praised for their "culture" simply lets in 800 people, a lot of whom aren't qualified per SW's min's, a lot of whom were shot down in interviews with SW, and a lot of them whom wouldn't pass the interview and they all live happily ever after. SW didn't need the F9 pilots and they didn't want the F9 pilots. They would have figured a way to allow the fewest amount of them over there as possible, and then quickly would fire the ones that made it over during their probation period. They don't wan't there culture messed up with 800 people they don't even know. And who can blame them.

Your opinion of where you work, or want to work, doesn't make anything a blunder. Although the future may not be great for F9??? at least for now they have their recalls back, new upgrade classes running, new airplanes coming, scheduled payraises and new destinations to fly to instead of selling their homes, moving back with their parents, setting up COBRA, and applying for unemployment benefits and entry level jobs.

Got it!


.....not.... for the record, the offer on the table was that all F9/Lynx pilots would be on the SWA seniority list...period. Not preferential interviews, ON THE LIST. Pay guarantees at whatever current pay scale were also offered, meaning SWA pay or F9/Lynx pay whatever was greater. From what I can see, most FO's would have had an immediate 40% pay raise. It is what it is, let's not try to rewrite what the offer actually was.

Good to see you posting again. From your history, I thought that you'd disappear after the F9 acquisition. I thought you were from the RAH PR department. Maybe it's employee relations instead. Perhaps your time is better spent telling the Frontier mechanics how fortunate they are.;)

MD80 03-08-2010 03:46 PM


Originally Posted by LuvJockey (Post 775504)
.....not.... for the record, the offer on the table was that all F9/Lynx pilots would be on the SWA seniority list...period. Not preferential interviews, ON THE LIST. Pay guarantees at whatever current pay scale were also offered, meaning SWA pay or F9/Lynx pay whatever was greater. From what I can see, most FO's would have had an immediate 40% pay raise. It is what it is, let's not try to rewrite what the offer actually was.

Good to see you posting again. From your history, I thought that you'd disappear after the F9 acquisition. I thought you were from the RAH PR department. Maybe it's employee relations instead. Perhaps your time is better spent telling the Frontier mechanics how fortunate they are.;)


+1................ Good one!


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