NATCA: Staff Directory
Safety & Technology: [email protected]

FAA Contact FAA


Agreed. This is getting blown way out of proportion. I've let a kid make a PA on while boarding ("Please take your seats"). Think that would make the news?

I agree with you completely.....if this controller had used just a little common sense, we wouldn't be having this discusssion.

I don't know the exact ATC rules, but since both the FAA and his own union, NATCA have issued statements saying that they condemn his actions and question his professionalism, I'm going to assume that he broke some pretty clear rules and likely knew that he was doing so at the time. My guess is that the problem comes down to two issues, access to a secure facility and access to the radios, but I'll let the investigation run it's course.

I'm also going to assume that he realized that everything his son said on the radios was going to be taped. I also assume he knew that dozens of crewmembers would hear this. Furthermore, it would be witnessed by a number of his coworkers in the tower, all of whom he put in a terrible position. Lastly, anyone who works ATC knows that there are now hundreds if not thousands of amateur scanners in this country listening in on the frequency just waiting to post any errors on LiveATCnet. Everyone keeps asking why this is getting so much attention and the reason is that this guy was silly enough to drop his pants in front of lots of people. You know, we all make mistakes in this business, and I've made some doozies, but they were generally in the heat of battle. This guy apparently preplanned this and willfully carried it out.

The going sentiment in this thread is that nothing bad happend, so what's the big deal? I could go through the entire book of FARs and easily make the case that on a rule by rule basis that you could ignore various FARs and easily complete the flight safely. But if you got into Flying with the notion that you would be a maverick and do your own thing by picking and choosing which rules to follow based on whether you thought they were important or not, then I'm here to tell you that you are in the wrong business. I'll even cop to breaking a few rules myself as I can neither confirm nor deny the odd crossword, but if I do it right in front of a Fed inspector, I'm not going to cry foul when he whacks me for being stupid. This guy broadcast his transgressions for all to hear and on a 1 to 10 Scale of Safety danger its probably a 1....but on a judgment scale where he put himself and his coworkers in a really bad positon, it's right up there. Again, I don't want him fired, but he was the one who made it a 'public' incident, so it's kind of hard to just sweep it under the rug. I hope he just gets a retraining session or whatever wrist slap controllers get,


Lastly, there's a lot of whining about the nanny state and too many rules. I tend to agree but the fact is that many of the rules come about because those in our own ranks abuse the system. While you can no longer walk up and visit an ATC facility since 9/11, with the proper authorization, you could get access for any number of group visits. However, the latest news is that all unofficial visits have now been supended in light of this incident. If you wanted to get your kids Cub scout troop a visit, this event may have sealed the deal. I am a commuter and don't want to see any rules passed limiting my choices. However, we have a few fellow pilots making some silly commuting decisions and next thing you know congress is involved. The fact is that sometimes we are our own worst enemies. Perhaps istead of excusing every misdeed in threads like this we should practice a little more self policing to avoid the nanny state. Maybe if one of his coworkers said...."You know, this isn't a good idea", we wouldn't even be discussing this.

....and now I'll get down off my high and mighty soapbox.

As have I. Did the whole picture thing with the Captains hat and everything for a family on my last trip.

But I'm sure that you can see the difference between a little cockpit visit while sitting at the gate with the parking brake on versus giving a tour during takeoff or landing. Likewise, I think there's a difference between arranging with your boss for a tour of the tower for your kid while you are off duty versus bringing him in during your shift to man the radios during the evening push.....but admittedly, I'm in the minority here.

This was probly JFK mid day. Not a busy or dangerous place. There was NO safety issue at all.

If more fathers took this type of interest in their sons, I think the world would be a better place.

The reason this Aeroflot A310 lost control is due to the ailerons being disengaged from the autopilot without any alarm sounding off once the yoke was held in a turn for more than 30 seconds. The aircraft wanted to maintain altitude which led it to loosing control, and to top it off once the captain regained his seat he kept fighting the stall system, all the crew had to have done in that situation to recover was to let go of the systems and the plane would have recovered itself. The crew were never trained nor were they made aware of this feature from Airbus or Aeroflot. It was a freak accident that happened and can't be blamed for the kid or the father for screwing up.

When I was 5 years old I once sat left seat in a DC-10 and got to push some buttons and even got to turn the heading selector to turn the plane, I still remember the Captain watching my every move and instructed me on how to do it. I think this controller made a safe fun decision to let his kid experience his fathers job, hell I think this man should be rewarded for actually involving his kid into his life and letting his kid understand what "Daddy has to go to work" really means...

This.

Probably the biggest reason I'm pursuing a career now in aviation is due to the opportunities I had to jumpseat on my Dad's trips. Of course those times are long gone now, but I remember them clearly.

The second biggest would be my Mom's idea;
I actually still maintain a logbook that my Mom started for me and contains every flight I've ever been on since I was 3 weeks old. I took over keeping track when I was about 7 or 8 and used to ask for the Flight crew's to sign it. Always ended up getting an interesting comment in there, or invited up sometimes. I havn't entered any of my personal training flights into it yet, but I still do keep track of all the other flights. Its a nice motivation booster to go back through it and check out all the odd-ball places I've been but can't remember...

Its just good to see another Dad doing what he can to give some inspiration to his kid. Whether or not he becomes an ATC is irrelevant. Its the shock and awe factor that kids really don't get anymore I think.

Hate to Disagree
 

Perhaps. The problem is that the media got a hold of it and has run like hell with the story. Even the Weather Channel did a special on the story and how it was "unsafe to let children control commercial flights".

The sad truth is that we need Congress in our corner now and although this was a small story, it's been blown out of proportion and it didn't help advance the cause of "professionalism" with the aviation community.

I'm just playing the piano, so don't shoot !:eek:

G'Day Mates:)

Watching the local news tonight, they stated, "ATC instructs pilots on how to land...how would you feel knowing a child was telling your pilot how to land the plane?"

All the fun stuff has been or is being taken away. I remember hearing stories from my dad about hiding dirty photos anywhere they could think of, being able to visit the cockpit in flight, to now, not being allowed to talk to one another. Seems what the controller did was on the boarder but the kid did not cause any incidents or accidents, I am sure he was fully supervised the whole time...and he only worked 3-4 flights. Slap the guy on the wrist and let him get back to work.

So true, never know who is DH in the back or if a flight attendant has sand up her $&%%@