Scoop

Guys,

The Whole Tim Martins episode is symptomatic of what is wrong with ALPA. Instead of truly looking for a great role model, of which I am sure there are thousands, they were apparently trying to “force” someone into that role – but for what purpose? Trying to make the regional airlines look better? Trying to overcome bad publicity following the Colgan accident? Maybe, and if so there is nothing wrong with that, unless of course you pick the wrong poster boy, and never really had any kind of legitimate screening process of potential candidates.

What is wrong however, is using Delta Pilot union dues to directly promote pilot groups that Delta is in competition with to secure flying. I don’t blame the RJ pilots, they are, and should be looking out for themselves. Some will say that the RJ Pilots bemoan the selling of scope as much as the mainline pilots do – maybe some do, and maybe some don’t, but the days of 3 or 4 years at a commuter and then moving on to a major are gone. The commuters are now almost as big as the majors and most guys will not have an opportunity to move on. For better or worse the seniority system seems to give disproportionate clout to the more senior members, members who would logically like to stick around and fly bigger equipment – putting them in direct competition with Delta Pilots.

I am no expert on this issue, but I think the time has come to at least seriously look at Delta leaving ALPA. We have all seen the compensation that the APLA employees are making – it appears to have truly become a bloated bureaucracy more concerned about self preservation, growth, and being all things to all pilots, than improving the lives of main-line pilots. Don’t misunderstand me, the Delta ALPA Pilot volunteers are very smart and dedicated and truly honorable people who are working their butts off for their fellow Delta pilots, but that does not change the fact that it is a bloated bureaucracy. Similarly, just because the federal government has many dedicated and outstanding employees does not make it one bit less a bureaucratic nightmare.

Can the same union serve disparate pilot groups who are in direct competition with each other for the same jobs? I don’t know, but UPS, SWA, and AMR seem to be doing fine without APLA. And I know that AMR currently has furloughs, but that is not related to who represents their pilots. Maybe this whole Tim Martins fiasco will be a wake up call for ALPA to truly change, but I fear they are in the damage control mode and are probably already planning on a slick feature in the next Airline Pilot magazine to (in their mind) quickly remedy this mess instead of taking a good look in the mirror and making substantial changes to how they do business.

Does ALPA take mainline support for granted? How long until mainline pilots are a minority at ALPA? Is it time for Delta to leave ALPA? I can’t answer that question, but there is no reason why Delta should not start looking at alternative representation.

Scoop

sailingfun

I shudder to think what this profession would look like without a national presence in DC. DALPA's work on that level is much like the CIA. You never hear about all the good things they do. You only hear about the failures or percieved failures. Every non ALPA and non union airline in the country has piggy backed off of ALPA's efforts on the national level. At the MEC level each MEC functions as a independent union in most areas including contracts. Ask a USAIR pilot what he thinks of its independent union and the job they have done since they dropped ALPA. Lately the ones I talked with want back in ALPA. Ones comment was consise. USAPA has not delivered on a single promise they made when I voted for them and they may have placed us all in a position of great financial harm depending on court decisions."

RCD73

Tim Martins was nominated for the honor by a DELTA pilot.

Oh the sweet irony.

Superdad

I think that ALPA provides some good services. That being said, we could pay for those services without being an ALPA pilot group. I believe that SWAPA contracts with ALPA for the EF&A services. I know Airtran pilots had a services contract with ALPA before becoming part of ALPA.

ALPA has lost its way. It is run by the attorneys who have convinced the national officers that settling everything is better than fighting. Time and time again ALPA manages to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. Unless we can get rid of the entrenched legal department and get some pit bulls in there we should break away.

I agree that ALPA does not serve its members as well as it could. The ALPA staff employees should not have better health care than the pilots they work for! And yes, some of their salaries are [edit] ridiculous.

I vote for an in house union at DAL!

filejw

Most of the independent airline pilots have a lobbying group called The Coalition of Airline Pilots? They seem to be pretty strong and do have some pull in DC .

Scoop

Sailing,

You make valid points but there are other ways to accomplish the same thing. I don't see why an in-house Delta pilots union cold not use some of the Millions of $ that now flow out of DAPLA and into ALPA to hire professional lobbyists? Why not join with APA, SWAP, UPS, and the USAIR union and form a "Mainline Pilots Lobbying group?"

At the risk of using a cliché, we need to "think outside the box."

A Delta Pilot on the DALPA boards has created a transform ALPA website - granted he wants to keep ALPA, which may after all is said and done may be the right thing to do, but only after it is changed and improved.

I recommend all the Delta pilots check out his website.

Scoop

reddog25

Presumably this in house union would be the same MEC that we have today? Yep our MEC has certainly kept the RJs out

BigGuns

I think CAPA The Coalition of Airline Pilots Association does better in DC than ALPA. Just look though their website. The Coalition of Airline Pilots Association I like really the part where they say "The problem is often another symptom of the race to the bottom in pilot compensation, qualification and experience. If we take steps to put professional pilots back in the cockpit, who are compensated at a level commensurate with the tremendous responsibilities they shoulder, we will solve this and many other problems within the industry."

ALPA is to busy trying to get regional airlines to join, they are destroying what they already have.

NuGuy

Heyas,

The following is just a thought exercise. Opinion only:

The DAL pilots contribute more the ALPA coffers than anyone else. Fedex is a distant #2.

There ARE parts of ALPA that do good work. It is these very same parts that ALPA uses as a revenue generator, and are probably ALREADY set up to handle contract work...R&I, EF&A and Aeromedical. I believe that technically, ALPA PAC is a seperate entity.

IMHO, withdrawl of DAL from ALPA would cause a cascade of events. Seeing the writing on the wall, my guess is that FedEx would exit soon thereafter, and UAL around the same time. These airlines would probably join and strengthen CAPA, and this group would go forward representing big airline issues.

With that kind of big money gone, there would be an immediate fiscal crisis, and ALPA would probably be split into two or three entities.

1) A "services" ALPA. The services that ALPA already provides to contract airlines would probably be packaged and split off. DAL, FDX and UAL could simply contract and receive the same services they get now, same as APA, SWAPA and IPA do.

2) A representation branch. This would be the part that represents airlines left in ALPA. Since this doesnt really pay for itself, the dues/cost structure would have to be adjusted signficantly.

3) ALPA PAC may or may not be split off. It could be used as the lobbying arm in and of itself, or it could get folded into another group.

The landscape would certainly change. Bad part is we'd lose the magazine, though....


Nu

syd111

I think ual would be right behind you or right in front of you. Either way