Sure. When the passion for past grudges results in an inability to analyze job protection issues objectively then they need to be evaluated and lessons applied, or discredited and forgotten.

Out of respect for decorum, my post has been deleted.

The goal is that we do not repeat the same mistakes for the same reasons.

Ok, Kreskin. Tell me what job protections we have given up with this latest transaction.

Then tell me again when your prediction for furloughs is.

We'll go from there.

Brakes,

Job Protection provisions have to be built with the expectation of the worst case scenario. "Worst case" is when they will be tested and when they'll have to work reliably.

Trans States is not the carrier it used to be. The GoJets situation put TSA's management number one on the list of "do not fly for under any circumstances" for many of us.

Flow through agreements are weak and problematic due to the fact that they rely on airline management to keep a future promise of employment. Before, Compass was Delta management who mostly can be trusted. Not so with the GoJets team. Even if the flow does survive (which I doubt), very few of your most junior First Officers would want that "opportunity" with this change. Go Jets / TSA management is not going to be particularly interested in having Delta pilots flow down either and my understanding is Delta management does not like the flow.

So who likes the flow? TSA management likes reducing longevity costs and Compass pilots like the flow. Those are two parties who really don't have a seat at the table if scope is being discussed and lest we forget, this flow is a creation of Delta scope.

The errors that I believe we made are that we divested "regional" pilots from our ranks, along with their aircraft Type. Certainly the strongest negotiation position would have been to claim them as our own, even if we intended to sell them. What has more value, a Delta pilot, or a Compass pilot? What has more value to you, pilots below you on the list (real furlough protection) or pilots at another airline? Who's seniority does Delta have an obligation to honor?

At this late point we have lost the ability to enhance the value of Compass, as furlough protection, or as a tool to recapture job protections lost in bankruptcy negotiations. Again, the strongest negotiating position is that of unity because it is the most difficult for management to make liquid and transact.

I pretty much disagree with everything you have just typed.

The flow has been EXTREMELY valuable.

We have been through the worst economic crisis since the Great Depression. Some say it is not over. Yet not 1 single Delta pilot was furloughed. To say that the flow through, and more appropriately the flow DOWN, had no effect on furloughs is disingenuous--at best. I believe, since you failed to provide the information, that you predicted furloughs in October. If that is not correct forget this statement: We are going to hire. Now, October is 4 months away, and anything can happen between now and then, but it looks rosy for now.

Does this latest transaction have the ability to allow us to blow ourselves up? Most certainly. At the same time, I have spoken with and gotten the mindset of our representatives. They had not even been briefed on the fallout of this transaction as early as yesterday. I made my opinions known: This is a section 1 problem, and it will take a section 1 solution. That being said, this transaction has just now peeked above the surface. There are many aspects of it which make no sense on the surface. Thus, perhaps we do not possess all of the details, or the transaction will shift to something else. Its too early to tell.

I WILL agree that unity is a good thing, and that horse was running wild out to pasture before you or I walked into the barn. However, a certain RJDC faction walked up to the barn door whilst the horse was standing in the newly opened door. They fires several live rounds into the air, scaring the bejesus out of said animal; causing it to not only to bound for open pasture, but eye the door warily and keep a very safe distance. I have observed first hand the horse whisperers arriving onto the scene with the intent of quelling the beast and trying to get him back in the barn.

The RJDC sued ALPA. I have no problem with that. The RJDC sought damages which included circumventing MY legally negotiated PWA. Them's fighting words, and unforgivable. I know who they are, and will remember them.

That being said, a number of Comair pilots--back to the topic of issue-- have found a way onto our list. I have flown with several of them, and have been extraordinarily pleased with their performance. I look forward to more of them joining our ranks. So your premise that I will take joy in lobbing grenades at them is unfounded and outright wrong.

So, you pulled your post. Sorry, too late. If I may be honest, I think that you are extremely smart, dedicated, and talented. You have, however, just the slightest inkling of chicken little syndrome. Your predictions that you bragged about in your post have not come true to this date, and I seriously doubt that your furlough predictions for october, again if my memory serves, will come to pass. PMs don't count, APC doesn't count either. Get into the fray, my friend. It is YOUR future.

Brakechatter,

I agree with what you wrote. The flow down was, and is, an important part of our job protection provisions. In fact, your quote is well worth repeating:You and I both witnessed the crime from different perspectives. You were in the barn and I was in the tree outside (with a less obstructed view). The farmer made a deal to sell the farm, but he couldn't tell the kids of his plans to squander their inheritance. He decided to tell everyone the sacred cows were stolen, then he'd claim the insurance money and retire. He opened the door and fired the shots, then fingered the straw man. When the straw man saw the sacred cows stampeding off the farm he figured the best way to save the day was to build a big fence that would protect them. To do so the straw man needed a hammer and some nails. Lumber from the open barn door was as good as any other lumber. I cautioned the straw man that there were flaws with his hammer, materials cost too much and that the farmer was a dangerous adversary. In the end, he lacked the workforce and materials to get the job done before the cows were taken by enterprising farmers from Utah and Indiana. The Straw Man settled for the ability to watch the farmhouse from a nearby hill. From this vantage point he calls the cops any time he sees a door on the barn starting to open, or close. The farmer resents the surveillance with a passion and ended up with a lot less retirement than what he had hoped his plan would produce. The kids work the farm now, making a lot less than the farmer did. The old homestead is still beautiful and green. The problem is, the farm just isn't as big as it once was and those cows that got lose are now competition for the homestead's production.

The neighboring farm to the Southwest avoided all the shenanigans and just stuck to farming. Their farm lacks all the fancy divisions and all the managers to figure it all out, but the barn is in pretty good shape. It has all of its doors and many fewer bullet holes. The just cows do what cows do ... eat grass, fart and mooooo.

Just because I understand and try to explain something does not mean I support or am trying to defend it.

As for my December 2010 forecast, I hope that I'm wrong. If the market speculation regarding our profitability is anything more than a pump and dump, I'll be eating that prediction with a smile.

Bar, you make a prediction of furloughs about every 6 months. Is there anything different about this time?

Seems like an answer DAL would be happy with is a flow where that they can still pick who they want. So maybe a complete cancel may be premature. Maybe instead of a straight flow it would be a guaranteed interview with a modified flowdown. May not be the best option but I could see this being a solution being brought up. It would keep the flow in place and allow DAL to keep the 76 seaters and DAL would still have some say in who flows over.

Not that I would be agreeable to this, but what would a modified flowdown look like?

I think too many people think that Delta's concern is the flow up...Those of us at compass were originally hired by meeting NW's hiring minimums doing the NW interview and sim profile along with completing the NW medical. Recently our hiring practices have been changed and a consultant company has been hired to revamp the process to model DL's hiring practices. Essentially we have all been employees of Delta and Delta has access to more information about us than they would any new hire off the street. Now that DL is talking hiring very few people are thinking furlough if DL is able to cancel the flow we may all soon find out just how much job protection Compass did provide for mainline

My personal feelings are that the CPZ guys that are on there now were hired expecting the flow, and screened as such. I believe we should do the right thing and honor that for the group that is there now.

Beyond that... I personally will not bat an eye is the flow is cancelled after that group flows.