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Spirit TA ratified
Spirit pilots ratified the TA by 74%.
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How come no one has seen the rates? or the work rules?
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Originally Posted by groundstop
(Post 845067)
How come no one has seen the rates? or the work rules?
Because I have....:) |
Where are they?
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Everyone got a copy of the draft, also available online (ALPA).:)
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Congradulations.
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APC been updated yet to show the new rates?
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Originally Posted by PilotFrog
(Post 845119)
APC been updated yet to show the new rates?
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Can someone please just post the new rates here?
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DOS + 4 years
FO Capt 1 38.50 101.62 2 72.05 121.88 3 77.73 126.52 4 83.86 131.35 5 89.96 136.35 6 95.44 141.56 7 99.93 146.60 8 103.19 150.68 9 106.21 10 109.27 159 11 109 164 12 109 169 13 109 175 14 109 180 15 109 185 |
Why post DOS +4 yrs?
Capt got a 10% raise and FO's got 18% |
Originally Posted by emj55
(Post 845190)
DOS + 4 years
FO Capt 1 38.50 101.62 2 72.05 121.88 3 77.73 126.52 4 83.86 131.35 5 89.96 136.35 6 95.44 141.56 7 99.93 146.60 8 103.19 150.68 9 106.21 10 109.27 159 11 109 164 12 109 169 13 109 175 14 109 180 15 109 185 Anyway, a Congrats is still in order. You guys have deserved it for a while . :) |
Originally Posted by emj55
(Post 845190)
DOS + 4 years
FO Capt 1 38.50 101.62 2 72.05 121.88 3 77.73 126.52 4 83.86 131.35 5 89.96 136.35 6 95.44 141.56 7 99.93 146.60 8 103.19 150.68 9 106.21 10 109.27 159 11 109 164 12 109 169 13 109 175 14 109 180 15 109 185 Why don't you post DOS number instead of rates for 5 years from now? Are you embarrassed? |
I dont have time to type 4 seperate years of pay. Why don't you?
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I deleted mine otherwise I would post it.
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Originally Posted by emj55
(Post 845202)
I dont have time to type 4 seperate years of pay. Why don't you?
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Sour, you are THE embarrassment, same kind as Patty, a person that would not hesitate to back stab anyone for a penny.
Contract passed, live with it or leave the company and go for what you are looking for. Obviously you can find it here. Every time you put this TA-Contract down, you are embarrassing yourself and us. Grow up dude!. And if you disapprove, run for NC next time, lets see what you have. Cheers. |
Copied and pasted, so excuse any errors or font problems....
[FONT=']2. Definitions[/FONT] [FONT=']*Check-in is now 45 minutes in domicile[/FONT] [FONT=']*International flying excludes above 15 degrees N. Lat, except for Cuba which is still international.[/FONT] [FONT=']*XX-EEE defines RAP's and associated verbage. [/FONT] [FONT=']3. Compensation (see end of post)[/FONT] [FONT=']*Open time pick-up now 100% over guarantee. (used to be 150%)[/FONT] [FONT=']*A-321 paid at 110% based on ratio of total system-wide block time A-321 to A-319/320.[/FONT] [FONT=']*Taxi or maintenance engine run pay increased from 24 minutes to 30 minutes.[/FONT] [FONT=']*Signing bonus on second pay day following DOS of $3,000 for captains and $7,000 for first officers.[/FONT] [FONT=']4. Minimum Guarantees[/FONT] [FONT=']*Minimum pay credit of 4.5 hours for multi-day trips(including 4.5 for layover>22 hrs) and 4.0 for single duty period trips.[/FONT] [FONT=']5. Expenses[/FONT] [FONT=']*Unlimited complimentary high-speed internet access both in-room and in business center.[/FONT] [FONT=']*Provision for over-booking to provide equal or better facility within reasonable proximity.[/FONT] [FONT=']*Per-diem is now $2.00/hr, for all trips away from domicile, increasing by $.05 on DOS+2, and an additional $.05 for DOS+3-5.[/FONT] [FONT=']*Company and association will confer on need for armed guard on van ride (like Lima, Peru).[/FONT] [FONT=']*Pilot will be allowed sufficient time to obtain nourishment.[/FONT] [FONT=']*Pilot allowed choosing which city to have free parking for domicile.[/FONT] [FONT=']*Pilot to be allowed employee rate for any other company station in addition to designated.[/FONT] [FONT=']*Pilot passport application renewal and expedited renewal fees shall be reimbursed.[/FONT] [FONT=']*Visa application fees charged by foreign country when duties require visa shall be reimbursed.[/FONT] [FONT=']6. Moving Expenses[/FONT] [FONT=']*Transfer allowance now $1300.[/FONT] [FONT=']7. Vacations[/FONT] [FONT=']*Floating vacation time shall be granted when 10% reserve coverage exists per seat, per aircraft type, system-wide.[/FONT] [FONT=']8. Deadheading[/FONT] [FONT='][SIZE=3]*Deadheading pilots not given priority for BFS's (big seats), until after takeoff.[/SIZE [FONT=']9. Training Pilots [FONT=']*Designated examiner while performing type rating events is now $50/hr override.[/FONT] [FONT=']*Line checks or standardizations observations from the jumpseat credited at $20/hr override.[/FONT] [FONT=']*Except for termination, no pilot will be removed from pay status due to any failure unless subject of FAA certificate action.[/FONT] [FONT=']12. Hours of Service[/FONT] [FONT=']*IF any part of duty period touches 0100-0400, limited to 11.5 hours of duty extendable to 12.5.[/FONT] [FONT=']FFDO leave added. Pilot allowed to be paid from vacation, or voluntary time off without pay.[/FONT] [FONT=']23. Furlough and Recall[/FONT] [FONT=']*Now required 30 day notice for furlough. Any less and pilot will be paid each day less than 30.[/FONT] [FONT=']*Pilots shall continue to accrue longevity for pay purposes for up to one year on furlough.[/FONT] [FONT=']*Pilots returning from furlough will now be allowed to submit system-wide preference listing and participate in the bid award process prior to requalification.[/FONT] [FONT=']*Furloughed pilots now have 30 days to accept recall.[/FONT] [FONT=']25. Scheduling[/FONT] [FONT=']*Minumum of 4 days off between trips and or block of reserve days. (retained) [FONT=']*Regular lines built to no more than 90 hours now. (increased)[/FONT] [FONT=']*Relief lines no less than 15 days off.[/FONT] [FONT=']*Transition conflicts now have 2 options: former option 2-modified, and default transition option (break up trip and pay protect leftover).[/FONT] [FONT=']*Addition of possible Electronic Shift Trade and first-come, first-served trading of open time.[/FONT] [FONT=']*Addition of Jet-Way trades: one pilot agrees to let another pilot operate a leg of a pairing by calling scheduling directly.[/FONT] [FONT=']*Rescheduling allowed up to 4 hours before original report and 4 hours after release time. One hour paid above guarantee for each: >2,>3 hours before original report or after original release.[/FONT] [FONT=']RAP's[/FONT] [FONT=']*Reserve RAP shifting (new, and non-existent in any other pilot contract):[/FONT] [FONT=']*First day of RAP may not be changed.[/FONT] [FONT=']*Last day of RAP in block of days for assignment cannot terminate beyond RAP+4.[/FONT] [FONT=']*On last day of RAP in block of reserve days, without an assignment, automatically released 6 hours prior to end of RAP.[/FONT] [FONT=']*RAP may be shifted up to 12 hours cumulative within block of reserve days (resets to zero every new block of reserve days or new bid period).[/FONT] [FONT=']*No pilot in active service at DOS may be furloughed as a result of the amendments to this section.[/FONT] [FONT=']*Commuter policy now has no limitations on frequency of use.[/FONT] [FONT=']*Electronic Shift Trade will be fully automated at DOS+6 months.[/FONT] [FONT=']*Crew Utilization Reports available by 7[FONT=']th[/FONT][FONT='] of every month.[/FONT][/FONT] [FONT=']*Daily availability online to reserves: relative position, reserve availability, seniority, assigned RAP, and flight credit accumulation.[/FONT] [FONT=']27. Insurance[/FONT] [FONT=']*Some rates going up.[/FONT] [FONT=']*Health Fund Diamond premiums remain the same.[/FONT] [FONT=']*POS-Plan A premiums almost double.[/FONT] [FONT=']*POS-Plan B premiums increase in some categories by as much as 43 %( EE only)[/FONT] [FONT=']*Select (EPO) premiums remain the same.[/FONT] [FONT=']*POS-Plan A and POS-Plan B annual deductibles, and payment limit (out of pocket maximums) are in some cases increasing by as much as 375%[/FONT] [FONT=']*Company can increase insurance costs beyond what's stated above by as much as 7% per year.[/FONT] [FONT=']28. Retirement[/FONT] [FONT=']*401k match increases to 9% at DOS+4. (currently/stays at 8% at DOS)[/FONT] [FONT=']*Addition of Roth Elective Deferrals.[/FONT] Captain Pay Rates Years of Service DOS DOS+1 DOS+2 DOS+3 DOS+4 1 64.65 64.65 65.94 99.62 101.62 2 96.64 96.64 98.57 119.49 121.88 3 104.46 104.46 106.55 124.04 126.52 4 108.14 108.14 110.30 128.78 131.35 5 115.51 115.51 117.82 133.68 136.35 6 117.65 117.65 120.00 138.78 141.56 7 119.74 119.74 122.13 143.73 146.60 8 133.68 139.16 141.94 147.73 150.68 9 135.69 142.27 145.12 152.15 155.20 10 137.73 145.44 148.35 156.72 159.86 11 140.53 149.10 152.08 161.43 164.65 12 143.30 152.84 155.90 166.27 169.60 13 146.09 156.61 159.74 171.25 174.67 14 148.90 160.44 163.65 176.40 179.93 15 151.67 164.33 167.62 181.68 185.32 First Officer Pay Rates Years of Service DOS DOS+1 DOS+2 DOS+3 DOS+4 1 38.50 38.50 38.50 38.50 38.50 2 61.31 66.22 67.54 70.63 72.05 3 66.38 71.69 73.12 76.21 77.73 4 71.39 77.10 78.65 82.22 83.86 5 76.35 82.45 84.10 88.19 89.96 6 78.77 85.07 86.77 93.57 95.44 7 80.77 87.23 88.98 97.97 99.93 8 82.60 89.21 90.99 101.16 103.19 9 83.19 89.85 91.64 104.13 106.21 10 84.22 90.96 92.78 107.13 109.27 I voted NO. |
Originally Posted by Sailor
(Post 845217)
Sour, you are THE embarrassment, same kind as Patty, a person that would not hesitate to back stab anyone for a penny.
Contract passed, live with it or leave the company and go for what you are looking for. Obviously you can find it here. Every time you put this TA-Contract down, you are embarrassing yourself and us. Grow up dude!. And if you disapprove, run for NC next time, lets see what you have. Cheers. Cheers! |
You are not an idiot or dumb, just obtuse... JB pay!!, get a job with them folks and work with their work rules. We like it here just like it is. And now it got better.
Cheers |
Originally Posted by johnso29
(Post 845193)
The CA rates look nice, but the FO rates take a while. I make $94 on 3rd yr at DAL. I'll be $99.60 on 4th year. Bummer.
Originally Posted by SourGrapes
(Post 845196)
Why don't you post DOS number instead of rates for 5 years from now? Are you embarrassed?
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Well since anyone who is in negotiations knows that they look at an industry average, we are looking to all you DAL, UAL, AA, etc folks to raise the bar for us next time. They averaged all the rates and we got parity with the average (and SWA was in the mix). So, we hope that with better times, the legacies and others will negotiate better rates and we can build on that.
But also remember, we have better work rules. Far better! And our health insurance is capped at a maximum 7% annual raise when we all know the cost of health insurance will increase drastically (plus our dental is thrown in for free). There's a lot more and I'm not going into it. The road shows did. So, if 11 planes show up next year, what happens to those FO's who are complaining (and for whom we went out on strike)? |
Originally Posted by lostplanetairman
(Post 845282)
Well since anyone who is in negotiations knows that they look at an industry average, we are looking to all you DAL, UAL, AA, etc folks to raise the bar for us next time. They averaged all the rates and we got parity with the average (and SWA was in the mix). So, we hope that with better times, the legacies and others will negotiate better rates and we can build on that.
But also remember, we have better work rules. Far better! And our health insurance is capped at a maximum 7% annual raise when we all know the cost of health insurance will increase drastically (plus our dental is thrown in for free). That's what I get out of your first paragraph. You guys had the b@lls to strike, but not to lead the way for A320 pay scales.:confused: PtP |
No, you don't understand. It's the way union negotiations go. If you think you can change the way it's done, join the NC and try.
It's not all about pay. Spirit pilots were surveyed and said QOL was more important. We maintained that. It's called TOTAL COMPENSATION PACKAGES. It's not just about the base rate of pay. You don't understand. You can rant and rave all you want about us to set industry leading wages. We knew that was never going to happen and never negotiated for that. We want more aircraft to show up and people to move up. You don't understand. The company wanted $40MM in concessions. We got $78 MM in improvements. We lost nothing in the strike. It was a successful strike. Most are not because strikers are out too long to gain any real advance and the company suffers a loss so they can't offer a better package. You don't understand. If you don't want to join the NC, just stand by and see what happens before you predict doom and gloom. I'm so tired of the Negative Nancy's. |
Originally Posted by lostplanetairman
(Post 845298)
No, you don't understand. It's the way union negotiations go. If you think you can change the way it's done, join the NC and try.
It's not all about pay. Spirit pilots were surveyed and said QOL was more important. We maintained that. It's called TOTAL COMPENSATION PACKAGES. It's not just about the base rate of pay. You don't understand. You can rant and rave all you want about us to set industry leading wages. We knew that was never going to happen and never negotiated for that. We want more aircraft to show up and people to move up. You don't understand. The company wanted $40MM in concessions. We got $78 MM in improvements. We lost nothing in the strike. It was a successful strike. Most are not because strikers are out too long to gain any real advance and the company suffers a loss so they can't offer a better package. You don't understand. If you don't want to join the NC, just stand by and see what happens before you predict doom and gloom. I'm so tired of the Negative Nancy's. Thank you for clearing up that I don't understand. I did just fall off the turnip truck yesterday.;) You did say that you can't get what your worth until the Legacies get what your worth first, though. I have no dog in the fight, but I find your first statement is the outdated, scary, weak and anti-advancing attitude that pilots in the airline industry continue to nurture. I'll butt out now. PtP |
Originally Posted by lostplanetairman
(Post 845298)
No, you don't understand. It's the way union negotiations go. If you think you can change the way it's done, join the NC and try.
It's not all about pay. Spirit pilots were surveyed and said QOL was more important. We maintained that. It's called TOTAL COMPENSATION PACKAGES. It's not just about the base rate of pay. You don't understand. You can rant and rave all you want about us to set industry leading wages. We knew that was never going to happen and never negotiated for that. We want more aircraft to show up and people to move up. You don't understand. The company wanted $40MM in concessions. We got $78 MM in improvements. We lost nothing in the strike. It was a successful strike. Most are not because strikers are out too long to gain any real advance and the company suffers a loss so they can't offer a better package. You don't understand. If you don't want to join the NC, just stand by and see what happens before you predict doom and gloom. I'm so tired of the Negative Nancy's. |
Originally Posted by Palmtree Pilot
(Post 845307)
Oh, ok. I'm happy for you guys that you got what you wanted.
Thank you for clearing up that I don't understand. I did just fall off the turnip truck yesterday.;) You did say that you can't get what your worth until the Legacies get what your worth first, though. I have no dog in the fight, but I find your first statement is the outdated, scary, weak and anti-advancing attitude that pilots in the airline industry continue to nurture. I'll butt out now. PtP If you don't bellieve me, join a NC and find out. Have a good day in your Internet anonymous world where you can try to insult others. You have a lot to learn. |
Originally Posted by SourGrapes
(Post 845244)
Sorry, we lost.
Originally Posted by Palmtree Pilot
(Post 845292)
You guys had the b@lls to strike, but not to lead the way for A320 pay scales.:confused:
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Originally Posted by lostplanetairman
(Post 845313)
No I said negotiations are always based on an industry average. SWA was included but the low wages of some others drove down the average (like UAL, USAirways, etc). They drove down the industry average. We can only negotiate from that.
If you don't bellieve me, join a NC and find out. Have a good day in your Internet anonymous world where you can try to insult others. You have a lot to learn. By the way my "anonymous world" resides in N. Scottsdale, AZ. I'm a 35 y.o. white, male pilot for World Airways. I'm 6' tall and 190 lbs. I have brown hair and hazel eyes. If you want to, you can PM me your # and I'll call you and give you my name so you can know who your talking to. PtP |
Originally Posted by PCL_128
(Post 845334)
I think it's hard for you to justify such a statement when 74% of your peers voted in favor of the contract. That's a very good ratification vote. Apparently your fellow pilots were quite pleased with what was achieved. Hardly a "loss."
Do you honestly expect that the pilots at a company with only 28 airplanes will be able to "lead the way?" A little reality, please. They made an incredible stride forward in pay when compared to their old contract, maintained their above-average work rules, and got some nice kickers like a 7% limit on insurance premium increases. I think they did a pretty good job. Congrats, I'm glad that you guys are happy with what you got. Maybe your hard work will rub off on the rest of the industry when it is their turns. PtP |
Originally Posted by Palmtree Pilot
(Post 845343)
Listen anonymous "lostplanetairman," I'm not on here to insult you; If I was, you would know it. Your first statement, that I commented on, was basically an excuse in defense of someone noting that your new pay scale #s were low. I'm playing devil's advocate to "LEARN" why you have that attitude about why your #s at DOS are low. I understand the "total compensation" plan as it relates to work rules; I work for World Airways and you can't tell how good life is there if you look at our pay #s. What I can say though, is that if SWA pilots would have had that attitude about industry average, they wouldn't have been at the TOP of your comparison scales.
By the way my "anonymous world" resides in N. Scottsdale, AZ. I'm a 35 y.o. white, male pilot for World Airways. I'm 6' tall and 190 lbs. I have brown hair and hazel eyes. If you want to, you can PM me your # and I'll call you and give you my name so you can know who your talking to. OK so you think we should only focus on pay? The number one response on the Wilson poll was to keep QOL. So you want us to go beyond industry parity and retain QOL? PtP I'd be very happy to talk with you. You are ill informed and I'd be very happy to discuss this with you in person.. |
Originally Posted by Palmtree Pilot
(Post 845343)
Listen anonymous "lostplanetairman," I'm not on here to insult you; If I was, you would know it. Your first statement, that I commented on, was basically an excuse in defense of someone noting that your new pay scale #s were low. I'm playing devil's advocate to "LEARN" why you have that attitude about why your #s at DOS are low. I understand the "total compensation" plan as it relates to work rules; I work for World Airways and you can't tell how good life is there if you look at our pay #s. What I can say though, is that if SWA pilots would have had that attitude about industry average, they wouldn't have been at the TOP of your comparison scales.
By the way my "anonymous world" resides in N. Scottsdale, AZ. I'm a 35 y.o. white, male pilot for World Airways. I'm 6' tall and 190 lbs. I have brown hair and hazel eyes. If you want to, you can PM me your # and I'll call you and give you my name so you can know who your talking to. PtP According to Airline Pilot Central, World Airways 15 yr payscale is $160/Hour with a 65 hour guarantee Spirit's is $185/hour with a 72 hour guarantee That's a whole lot better, by anybody's math! |
Just the facts
Originally Posted by lostplanetairman
(Post 845282)
Well since anyone who is in negotiations knows that they look at an industry average, we are looking to all you DAL, UAL, AA, etc folks to raise the bar for us next time. They averaged all the rates and we got parity with the average (and SWA was in the mix).
Using APC's posted current hourly payrates, I calculated the average hourly rate years 1-15 for both FO and CA using: Alaska, American (average of 737 and MD-80), Continental (SN), Delta (A320), Hawaiian (717), United (A320), US Airways East (A320), US Airways West (A320), AirTran, Allegiant, Frontier, JetBlue (A320), Southwest, Sun Country, USA 3000, Virgin, and Spirit's now DOS rates. I then compared this average rate to both Spirit's new DOS rates and Spirit's new rates @ DOS +4. While there are obviously 100's of #'s when you get every FO and CA pay rate from year 1-15 for every carrier here (so I won't post them here), the result:
When none of your current payrates are industry average, and, even 4 years from now, roughly 1/2 your pilots are still below industry average (from 4 years ago) . . . Spirit did not get parity with the industry average. I included Southwest (:confused:) as well as the 9 carriers that took concessions in the last decade (either bankruptcy, threat of bankruptcy [AA], or arbitration loss [AK]). For future reference, this is the current industry average pay for A-320 type aircraft year 1-15 (save yourself the hour it takes to plug all of it into Excel): CA FO 102.63 35.00 126.86 76.00 129.88 91.00 132.48 93.50 135.50 96.00 137.74 98.50 139.63 100.50 142.48 103.00 144.63 106.50 146.98 108.50 148.85 110.50 150.99 111.50 151.33 111.50 151.67 111.50 151.95 111.50 If you want me to e-mail the excel spreadsheet with all the #'s, just PM me. The #'s don't lie. |
Well, if you went to the road show you would know that you're wrong. We got the numbers.
I still have them. Have a good day. |
Excellent work Sniper! Thank you for taking the time to run the numbers.
The WORST part about all this is that Spirit puts 145 seats in the A319s, 178 seats in the A320s, and 218 seats in the A321s!!! That alone should warrant better pay rates. Who else puts that many seats in their jets? But man...think of all the "override" pay we're gonna continue to rack up for flying the A321s! :rolleyes: |
Originally Posted by Sniper
(Post 845404)
I thought this statement was suspicious. So, I ran the #'s.
Using APC's posted current hourly payrates, I calculated the average hourly rate years 1-15 for both FO and CA using: Alaska, American (average of 737 and MD-80), Continental (SN), Delta (A320), Hawaiian (717), United (A320), US Airways East (A320), US Airways West (A320), AirTran, Allegiant, Frontier, JetBlue (A320), Southwest, Sun Country, USA 3000, Virgin, and Spirit's now DOS rates. I then compared this average rate to both Spirit's new DOS rates and Spirit's new rates @ DOS +4. While there are obviously 100's of #'s when you get every FO and CA pay rate from year 1-15 for every carrier here (so I won't post them here), the result:
Spirit did not get parity with the industry average. I included Southwest (:confused:) as well as the 9 carriers that took concessions in the last decade (either bankruptcy, threat of bankruptcy [AA], or arbitration loss [AK]). For future reference, this is the current industry average pay for A-320 type aircraft year 1-15 (save yourself the hour it takes to plug all of it into Excel): CA FO 102.63 35.00 126.86 76.00 129.88 91.00 132.48 93.50 135.50 96.00 137.74 98.50 139.63 100.50 142.48 103.00 144.63 106.50 146.98 108.50 148.85 110.50 150.99 111.50 151.33 111.50 151.67 111.50 151.95 111.50 If you want me to e-mail the excel spreadsheet with all the #'s, just PM me. The #'s don't lie. CA FO 31.18 31.18 149.98 62.33 151.34 73.38 152.69 83.11 154.04 91.47 155.40 99.97 156.76 102.40 158.12 104.84 159.46 106.91 160.83 109.41 162.18 110.74 163.53 111.66 These rates are about to go up around Sept. 1st as we take delivery in August of 9 LNB 737s which have been sitting at Boeing while the seat issue was resolved. |
Well I don't know about anyone else but here at Spirit I like my aircraft, my fellow pilots, my routes, my schedules, I'm paying my bills with some left over, enjoying my hobbies, and living in paradise. What else is there?
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Congrats on closing the chapter on this book, guys and gals. You put up a great fight, and I'm glad to see that you got some good improvements to your contract. Also glad to see that the unity you all displayed payed the dividends that it did.... a good lesson to pilots everywhere.
Trying to look forward to our OWN negotiations, I've perused your contract details with interest. The one area where I'm most concerned is the "signing bonus". It appears that more and more, retro pay has now slipped by the wayside as an important issue. Companies are buying us off with a fairly insignificant sum and being let off the hook on the retro side. With retro gone, so is the incentive to negotiate swiftly. Dragging the process out three, four, five years just keeps looking better and better if they are going to only have to drop $3,000 per captain rather than the $30,000+ in retro pay they would owe. Hmmm.... I think I'll go call my reps. |
Originally Posted by lostplanetairman
(Post 845406)
Well, if you went to the road show you would know that you're wrong. We got the numbers.
I still have them. Have a good day. |
Originally Posted by GoldenGoose
(Post 845403)
According to Airline Pilot Central, World Airways 15 yr payscale is
$160/Hour with a 65 hour guarantee Spirit's is $185/hour with a 72 hour guarantee That's a whole lot better, by anybody's math! Spirit 10 year Captain-----$137/hour:( World 10 year Captain----$158/hour:eek: so that's 21 bucks more per hour than Spirit. and they got teamsters, maybe we should switch to them. wow, World even gets 2.40 hour per diem...that's 40 cents better than sprite.... Your math is fuzzy...... God Bless Goose...;) |
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