collegedude

guys will this air taxi market explode? will there be a bigger need for small jet pilots when this gets started up? with the recent terrorism bust and more and more TSA rules people WILL PAY for air taxi services.

CWU1919

Air taxi has been around awhile if I remember correctly...don't think that if Dayjet ever does start up that it's going to get any cheaper. It's still something around 2000 buxx an hour to charter a jet and last time I checked the VLJ's are indeed jets so it's not going to be any cheaper. The eclipse jet has a crappy payload capacity, poor range, and eventhough it can get up to fairly decent altitudes, it's not very quick, I just don't see what the big fuss is about. Plus it will cause headaches for ATC spacing since it flies about a hundred knots slower than most commercial jets that rule those altitudes. I guess it's ok for small scale private operations, you know bringing along a couple peeps and going on vacation with a couple bags, but don't load anymore than that lol...but in terms of the air taxi industry, I think that when it first starts out there will be a lot of excitement generated and people will be willing to spend the extra buck to see what the experience is like...but I think that the smart business traveler and most of those who can afford it will realize there are better more viable alternatives towards spending their money and realize that for a price not much steeper, they can charter a much nicer jet that will get them there quicker, hold all there crap, and have alot more space and accomodations. The mins at Dayjet are steeper than I expected but I guess it's because the eclipse and the other vlj's will be single pilot ops if I'm not mistaken, cheaper for the company but in terms of safety two is always better than one...In terms of the pilot boom, there might be a small one, but like I said if DayJet can get there @$$ moving. The whole TSA crap will make things harder, and I doubt a lot of new air taxi operators will be sprouting up...Overall I frown upon the idea, I have no faith in the air taxi business at all, I predict it crumbles...

SkyHigh

If you sit down and add up all the expenses for four people to fly first class within a 1200 mile radius it makes sense to use a Dayjet service. Not only will you save almost a full day at either end of the trip since you don't have the hassle of the airport and TSA but you could be flown directly from your home to the destination for little more than four first class airfare tickets.

I'll bet the pilots earn more too.

SkyHigh

UNDGUY

It's not going to get any cheaper? Of course its going to be cheaper, thats the whole idea. It's going to allow a whole new segment of the population to travel by charter rather than commercially. The FAA is concerned that VLJ's will cause too much congestion in the airspace system. What does that tell you about the number of VLJ's that are predicted to be purchased? There are going to be a ton of people who can now afford a jet that couldn't before VLJ's. Everyone of those VLJ's is going to need a pilot. I predict that there will be a "pilot boom" as a result. Do some research and I think you will change your mind about VLJ's.

With an acquisition cost of one-third of today’s small jets and the lowest operating cost of any jet, the Eclipse 500 provides the lowest cost of jet ownership ever achieved. The purchase price of the Eclipse 500 is $1.52 million (June 2006 dollars) and operating costs are $340 per hour. The least expensive jet on the market today, with similar performance, costs close to $4.5 million to buy and more than $675 per hour to operate. This breakthrough has made the benefits of private jet transportation available to a much broader segment of the population. http://www.eclipseaviation.com/about_eclipse/faq/

I've sat in both prototypes and prefer the Mustang for comfort and styling. Indeed, the Eclipse is so tiny as to be cramped for my stiff back and long legs. But its performance--in speed, range, short-field utility and direct operating costs ($0.67 per mile)--trumps Cessna's, at half the price.

A previously skeptical trade publication, Aviation International News, now gives the Eclipse 500 a 75% chance of success. That's about as high a ranking as a new aircraft gets in this risky field, and it matches AIN's success probability for the Cessna Mustang.

Here's to Eclipse--and to the confounders of cynicism that make America great.
Rich Karlgaard http://www.forbes.com/business/forbe.../0110/031.html

CWU1919

UND you are not helping your point. Exactly what I said, VLJ's are going to be slow and they are going to clog the sky...so what you say their operating costs are low that doesn't mean the air taxi operators if they ever get off the ground that is like DayJet will make the price low...I did do my research I talked to corporate pilots and people in the industry about it, and I read a lot of articles and opinions on the matter from a number of sources...and dude quit throwing all these numbers at me I don't care they are all estimates you sound like a salesman from eclipse a really bad one your reference was from the eclipse site itself for one of your links trying to persuade me about how great VLJ's will impact and benefit the market... and wow I don't think Eclipse is very biased in their opinion towards the vlj's are they?..
There are plenty of used biz jets e.g. lears, falcons, citations, etc. that go for under 2 mil right around the cost of an Eclipse and with the exception of some of the slowtations most of those jets destroy the Eclipse in terms of performance, business travelers want something comfortable that can get them to their destination refreshed that's the whole point of it, if they didn't they would buy a seat on the airlines...and last, o wow aviation international news is now optimistic about the Eclipse I guess we should all follow suit you got me there...dude I am smarter than that and it's sad that you can't see the big picture and you're blinded by all the hype of the VLJ program wait and see man wait and see...and skyhigh a little more than first class seats that's still a lot more than most people are willing to pay...

TrafficDawg

Let's not confuse these issues with facts...

ryane946

I worked for Adam aircraft designing the A-700 VLJ. The operating cost was under $500 an hour! And the cost to buy any of the VLJ's is somewhere around $2 million dollars.

HERE'S MY PREDICTION:

VLJ's will do the same thing to aviation as fractional ownership has done in the last ten years ---> EXPLODE!

Many years ago, flying on a private jet meant that you or your company OWNED a $30 million dollar jet, paid for all the fuel, hired pilots to fly, paid for maintenance, and PAID for all the ownership costs associated with owning a plane. VERY EXPENSIVE!
Then came NetJets and other fractionals. Well, a 1/16 share of a $30 million dollar jet is a lot more affordable for A LOT more people. And you just paid an hourly fee when you went flying.

Well... what happens you start selling 1/16th shares of a $1.6 million dollar jet (That's $100,000 for an ownership share in a jet). Now A WHOLE LOT MORE people can start owning private jets. And with operating expenses similar to a few first class tickets per trip, you can start seeing private jet passengers from the upper middle class. I predict the growth in the VLJ market will be at an even faster pace than the growth we saw in the fractional ownership market over the past several years!

iahflyr

That's a really good point ryane.

What do you think about the potential for on-demand air taxi service?

airspeedsalive

I think it will be interesting to see what happens in the future. It's like the original Citation. Good little jet and all, but it seems people always want more, bigger, faster, higher - next thing you know you've gone from a nice little jet to the whole range of Citations we have now. Little jets seem to grow.