Best Age to a Major
 

Hello Everyone:

My first thread start, so pardon if it's a bad one ... Young Pilot here, always thinking about the future as a Pilot. So, I was wondering what's the ideal/realistic age (in a perfect world) to a make it to a Major? Or, if you are one who is already at a Major, what age did you make it in? I know several factors can affect when one makes it in and there is no hard number regarding age, but I was curious as to what the average is.

Please no negative comments about "getting out while you're still young" or anything along those lines ... I'm in it for the long haul.

Thanks in advance for the responses, I appreciate it.

I made it to DAL in 2001 at 29.

IMO, there is no "best age". If you want to be a major airline pilot, the "best age" is whenever you get hired. Obviously the earlier the better. In 2001, the average age in my class was around 38 I recall. Most of the military guys were older, civilians tended to be younger. I have no idea what the breakdown is now. I think the kids in high school or early college will be golden. They will be getting to their time in about 5-8 more years when the retirements will fully kick in. It is conceivable that guys will be hired and be Captains in a few years after that. DAL will lose 800 guys alone during the peak retirement years and that assumes no medical outs and guys go to 65. Any alterations and the numbers will go up.

I made it to Alaska (for the first time) in 2007, age 25...

Still waiting on the second time...

Ideal age - the youngest they will hire anyone at and I think that is 21 or 23.

Realistic age - really depends on lots of factors with timing, connections and luck being the best ones to have on your side. That being said I'd say late 20's to late 30's.

Average age - last I heard mid 30's

^^^^^^^^^^^^
Eric Stratton is right....the younger the better. Seniority is everything. I was on track to be at a major at the age of 28 and then 9-11 happened. I'm 37 now and enjoying life at a major. My class had some guys in their mid 40's. Heck, you could get hired at 50 and still have a good career. If your 50 and live in base, who cares if your on reserve. You may never be a senior widebody captain but there is nothing wrong with being a senior FO.

What ever your age is make sure you do something fun in terms of full time flying before you get to a major. It will be all slow and boring for the most part from that point on.

I got hired at 32 and I would never trade any of my experiences prior to Delta.

I agree completely! I hope you have a long and fruitful career.
fbh

mid 30's. So many factors outside age though. Talk to a guy that got hired at 35 at fedex, sw, united airways, etc. that is now 50? You will get a lot of answers. Luck, timing, and networking

I'm on track and shooting for being at a major by the time I'm 30. That's the best case plan... I have 5 years to make it happen. Ideally I'd like to be there by age 35 at the latest, but anything can happen. I'll just be happy to make it there no matter what age it happens to occur (if it even does) :D .

My new hire class at DAL had a guy that was 26 and a guy that was 57. Most guys were in mid 30's to mid 40's.

As young as you can is ideal. But if you're asking for a cutoff age...that would depend entirely on the demographics and growth prospects of the major in question.

For example there's a lot of old guys at US...a 55 year old might still upgrade and hold a line there before he retires.

I was hired at UAL in 99 at the ripe age of 25. Thought I won the lotto ticket. Then came 9/11, bankruptcy, 2 furloughs and now a seniority integration which may not go too well. Long ago I was "supposed" to retire <#10, now probably over 1000.

Bottom line, timing is more important than age, although who really has control of either!

KC

Thanks for the quick replies by all, I really appreciate it. It appears the average is about early 30's ... Diver Driver: that's my exact goal, right at 30 is the way things would go in a dream for me. I'll take 35, if I have to. FlyAK, that's incredibly young to have already been at a Major, must be nice. You'll get the recall soon, I'm sure of it.

As for me, I feel I started too late. I just turned 21 (9 years to meet the goal!) with only 133 hours but flying like crazy and hoping to get a Commercial in the next few months and continuing to build from there. I definitely follow the advice to network as much as possible and have kept contact with quite a few Captains that I've had the chance to meet ... All say what DAL4EVER said about the timing of retirements, etc in the coming years, so I stay optimistic; however, I've gotta admit that I already feel I've missed out on something that isn't even here yet. But, I continously keep touch with all I can, hoping it helps down the road with getting that first job for building time so I can meet the next big wave.

For those who have replied so far, if you don't mind me asking more ... what age did you intially start flying? How'd you build up your time in getting to a Major?

Many thanks again.

A lot of people have talked about the luck and timing part of getting hired, however there is also the "who you know part". When we were hiring at Delta I talked to the interviewers all the time. This is how it was explained to me: (imagine the interviewer using his hands to show stacks) Here is stack number 1, this is the stack that of all the candidates that meet our requirements here at Delta. Here is stack number 2 this is the stack of candidates from stack number 1 that have letters of rec from Delta pilots. (this stack was almost the same height as stack number 1) Now here is stack number 3. A stack that is much smaller than the other two stacks. This stack is full of pilots that have letters of rec and the person that recommended them called and followed up on the status. This means that the guy that wrote the letter truly wants this person here and is staking his/her reputation, and future recommendations, on it.

As a general rule, when a company starts hiring there are a lot of familiar names in the first classes. (family, friends and internal hires) During this hiring cycle we even hired one of our crew schedulers. It will be interesting to see how he likes it on this side of the phone.

Wow...Thanks for walk down memory lane.

To Grand Canyon @ 19
To Island Air @ 21
To SkyW @ 26
To NWA @ 32
To Alaska @ 38
Back to NWA/DAL @ 42

Good Luck PS. Just because you start early doesn't mean you'll end up golden. 22 years in and I'm still at the bottom 10% of a major. All good choices at the time, but one never knows.Each time I changed it seemed like the correct thing to do. Now looking back I wish I would have gone the route of a web site creator or something else. Don't get me wrong...still having a great time, but come on now. What other industry could a person do 22 years and be at the bottom?

Baja.

Porn star maybe?

LOL...Just spit brew on laptop. Nice one Avroman!!

Baja.

btw - I said 'be at the bottom' ..... not 'be on the bottom!'

Depending on what film you are watching, they may be at someones bottom.

I started with NWA/DAL the week after my 27th birthday and i was 2nd youngest in my class. I think the avg though was 30/31. The key is to get on as early as possible. Good luck

Earlier is better, more importantly though is catching the front of the hiring wave whenever that occurs.

For instance, AMR. If it stayed the same size when would pilots start retiring in mass? Whenever that is, get hired then.

There is always a group of pilots who hit the wave right and had fast progression and quick upgrades and so forth and some at the same airline that had no progression and no upgrades.

Started flying at 17, flew jumpers in college, did the RJ thing at about 22, furloughed a year and a half later. Currently a Dash FO.

It's been a roll of the dice so far. I think everyone's flying career is in some aspect or another. Had you told me 5 years ago my timeline would have looked as it does, I'd have said you were crazy. I've had some setbacks, but I've been very lucky too. Work hard, try to stay positive and network as much as you can. Hopefully the economy will improve and hiring will resume; that seems to help the 'dice' land more where you want them.

AGE 30 or BUST (If you want to be realistic)
 

You want to be at a Major by age 30. This is assuming the airline does not go under. That will give you ten years to upgrade to captain. At age 40 you will be a low end captain. By age 50 you will be a high seniority captain at max pay or near max pay. Then you have 10-15 years to have max pay with a great schedule. If you dont make it by about age 35 it probably wont be worth the sacrifice...Just my personal opinion when you look at it strictly by the sacrafice vs. reward.

However the corporate world is always up in the air when it comes to finacial success. Which is where I would advise someone who has bad luck in the airline industry to go.

More importantly, TAKE CARE OF YOUR HEALTH.

More and more of our careers are being shifted to later years. Tremendous amount of the stress, lack of QOL, poor eating habits on the road and sitting still all day long. I am still surprised at how many lose medicals in their 50s. While in many instances it is just bad genes and unavoidable, it is probably the biggest personal investment you can make to your career and family(and the airline can't f^ck with it :) ).

My 2 pennies-

KC

Actually, just to show the other side of the fence (right now), United has 11 year F/Os still on furlough and most 10 year Delta guys are Narrowbody F/Os so this is a little optimistic (Even SWA - right now top of the heap pax pay scale wise has stagnated/stopped their progression and guys I know there freely admit they are overstaffed). So make sure you enjoy what you're doing on you way to a major. 15 years ago (not that long) Cargo (FEDEX/UPS) were considered also rans amongst most applicants (still do a LOT of back side of the clock flying), then they were the hottest thing (highest paying) and now UPS on pilots on the street. Bottom line -good job (travel, decent pay), terrible career - your skills are not transferable (as in real professional civilian jobs) - if you leave/get furloughed and decide to go elsewhere you start at the bottom again - e.g. many guys furloughed at Delta/United went to UPS/SWA and now they're stuck at the bottom with no progression in sight.

Good Luck.:)

Its always a roll of the dice.
I have had my app in at DL/AA (with recs) for 12 yrs now, when I first hit my 1000TPIC and still no call for the interview. :(:confused:

I started at NWA at 26 and I'm senior to this ^ guy. ;)

Yeah you're 1 of the 7 people in front of me that are barely younger than me and senior to me, so just know i'll be watching your health for the next 31-36 years ;)

I wouldn't focus too much on age. You do have some great things going for you. Around the 2020 time frame, almost all of the major airlines are going to be retiring pilots like crazy. If you can just get hired in the first half of that wave (about the first five years or so) you will be set. Your first five years at the airlines would look extremely different as compared to someone that's been hired over the last decade (just bad timing for the 2000-2010 hires). As others have stated, the airline pilots have really been kicked in the teeth that last ten years. 9/11, outsourcing to RJs, bankruptcies, Age 65 etc... causing little growth and few retirements. The pilots hired at the majors between 2018-2025 are going to really going to have great progression, IMHO.

I made it at 24 (but very much on the backside of the hiring wave).

Good luck to you!

Well said!

I was hired back in '79 right out of college and my older brother had the same thing happen in '78, but what you said about being a right seat guy that gets his first choice is spot on.

My neighbor was a 767 Capt. and wanted to see his kids grow up so he jumped back to the right seat on a 777 and has a great schedule.

Eventually, we'll all end up retiring and you'll get a seat at a major. :D

In a perfect world maybe...

I was hired at UAl at age 29 was a captain by age 40 and am now a very junior F/O on the 757/767. None of this stuff is scripted.

I wouldn't get so hung up on your age now. I was 19 when I took my first flying lesson and didn't get my first RJ job until I was 34. Things change rapidly in this industry and you need to be flexible. That's the most important thing I've learned after 18 years of working for airlines in one capacity or the other.

I only got a certificate or rating when I had the money saved up to pay cash for it. I didn't get my commercial until I was in my mid 20s and didn't start instructing until I was almost 30. I also worked my way through college (non-aviation) while working as a flight attendant for 12 years. I flew part time as a flight instructor, traffic watch pilot and part time charter pilot all while keeping my flight attendant job to pay the bills and stay out of debt.

I'm almost 39 now and am working for my 3rd RJ company. Still not at a Major, but that's ok because I've kept my eye on the ball and will hopefully end up there someday soon, 20 years after this adventure began. At the end of the day, I wouldn't have done any different. I have experience with different jobs at the airlines besides pilot, no pile of debt facing me and have had a blast over the last 18 years in this industry.

Good luck to you.

Crystal ball is what you need.

Hired at US Air at 26
Hired at Delta in '99 at 27, retiring at projected #2
Hired at UPS in '06 at 34, look like genius for leaving.

4 short years later I look like a moron at 38...go figure.

I agree. It's not about age, but about where in the hiring cycle you get picked up. Say you're hired at the end of a big cycle, with 2,000 pilots hired in an airline of 6,000. And you're the youngest person in the airline, for example 8 years less than average. Let's make the average 38, you 30.

Until the last 8 years of your career, you're going to have 2,000 guys in front of you competing for everything good. THEN they'll start getting out of the way. So, out of 35 years remaining to 65, you'll really have the run of the airline about 8 years.

The number one guy in that cycle will only be one number junior to the bottom guy in the previous cycle, even if it's been ten years between cycles. HE is going to be at 66% of the company when you're hired, and he's going to steadily progress to #1, about 8 years before you retire. Now, since he was hired at the average age of 38, he'll only have 27 years at the airline, but each one of these will be a good year.

He'll have a great career, despite starting older. You will have a decent career. You'll be better off than the old guy hired in your class, by far, and you'll enjoy a happy period near the end of your career. Right around the time you'll start worrying about wet farts, you'll finally be able to fly really, really long legs...

Are you still flying at UPS, or did you get furloughed?

still at UPS, not in the furlough group fortunately. I'm one of the lucky ones that left Delta and Northwest that is not in that group...

Obviously it's better to be hired at the begining of a hiring cycle rather than the end but you almost seem to be saying that age doesn't matter that it's the cycle that does.

What's the difference if you're 30 and are the last guy hired for 8 years or the 1st guy hired 8 years later when you're 38, during the next cycle? You're still in the same place except you have 8 years of longevity. (hopefully not furloughed either)

If you are going to compare a 38 year old and 30 year old you should make the comparison when the 30 year old reaches 38 and then compare.

I guess that means Delta is about to buy Alaska.

Here's one for you, I was hired at XJT in 2000 no long after turning 22. We had a bid, I called the union and was told I'd be upgrading to ERJ-145 Captain two months after turning 24, just a few months shy of 2 years in the company. Watched the NY Giants play Monday Night Football that night contemplating how to handle training in most likely February. I slept in the next morning and my phone kept ringing and ringing and ringing. It was the morning of September 11th, 2001. By the end of the week I was told that I'd be furloughed due to flow backs, a term I had never heard of. I was never furloughed and I eventually upgraded three years later.

Somebody once said this to me in college, and it came from his early 40s L1011 Captain dad, and I think it was the best advice I ever got: "there is always someone who did it younger, faster and better than you could ever do it - so just do a good job and enjoy it."

now thats a good quote

I actually said age was a discriminator between people in the same class. I suppose that, if hiring at some airline was constant and evenly spaced, age would be the only factor influencing career progression. But in the real world of boom and bust, there seem to be very big hiring pushes, spaced far apart. The more patches of hiring are spread out, the less important age becomes.

In the example you cite, I think you actually make my point. When the second guy gets hired, by virtue of the example you laid out, you are comparing two 38 year-olds.

The senior of the two guys is 8 years earlier in getting hired. For those eight years, all he has to show is a difference in longevity for pay and benefits. But both get to exercise roughly the same bidding power. Both get their widebody transition at the same time, both get to the left seat at the same time. Both retire at the same time. Youth gets the senior guy... nothing special.

It's hard to compare total QOL and career earnings between the two, but it's undeniable they both will fly roughly the same equipment, for all their career at the major. Now, the junior guy was probably senior at some regional for the eight-year gap between classes, which maybe wasn't that great. Then again, the senior guy was the plug at his airline, which maybe wasn't that great either.

Now, you can play different variations on the theme. I will agree that age plays a role, but it seems to me that the standard deviation in terms of age is not that much, especially when compared to the length of the career. I think the guy that gets hired early is much better off, for much longer, than the young guy that finally gets to move up for a few years after older guys retire.

I'm one of those younger guys. I got hired late in the push, but young (8 years below average), and I've been doing the math a lot. What I get to do in the last 8 years of my career is a nice consolation price for my furlough, and the relative slow movement I will see until those old ba$t@rds finally get out of my way:).