Right from the horse's mouth.

DAL THANKS YOU. I bet the back side of those green bag tags says "I'll be the first to cross"

Originally Posted by Carl Spackler http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/im...s/viewpost.gif
Even though our next contract negotiations has to be hurt, it's a small price to pay ....


Hilarious! For everyone else besides Pineapple Guy, here is the rest of the sentence. I'm sure it was just an accident that Pineapple Guy chopped it off:

Feel free to display your talents at accuracy anytime Pineapple Guy.

Carl

There you have it. If you support the DPA, you're a scab. What's next Pineapple Guy...a Hitler comparison? You have truly lost whatever argument it was you were trying to make.

Carl

Something must be wrong with me....I find myself agreeing with Carl a lot these days:rolleyes:

Yikes!! :D

Carl

It is easy to agree with emotional based statements. We all "feel" this way at some point. It is quite another to logically deconstruct what DPA offers and compare it piece by piece to ALPA.

There are many things that DPA has stated that make sense, but taking it to the next level is not just important, but crucial if they are going to be a viable voice for this pilot group. They need to address each and every issue, not emotionally, but logically. They need to realize that emotion may get cards, but it will not get someone to vote for them until they prove that they can do "better" that ALPA in a great many things.

Being upset at ALPA is one thing, but voting them out is quite another. Each and every member owes it to their families and to their fellow pilots to weigh DPA's merits on every issue, or service they purport to offer against ALPA. Emotional arguments and points feel good, but generally do not accomplish the desired objectives. To date, all of the conversations I have had with my fellow pilots that seek an alternate association, fail to come remotely close to selling the idea that DPA will do better that DALPA.

It would be wise for ALPA and DPA to listen intently to what the pilots are saying, and then realize that what the Delta Pilots want is; an Association that defends their contract, both to the company and to the World, a agent that is their voice, and carries their objctions and demands forward. ALPA needs to do better on some level, and DPA needs to realize that selling anger does nothing to solve the problem except to constantly identify it.

Well I guess I cant really say all local reps since I only talked to my rep. But I would hope the other LEC reps feel the same way. I guess we'll see...

Yes, we will. These real facts always have an interesting way of being presented. Most reps are quick to agree, but they are also smart enough to tell pilots that they want all the facts not just the ones they have been presented before they make a final judgment.

ACL,

The mistake you make is assuming that any conclusion different than yours is based on emotion. Two different people can look at the same set of facts and come to different conclusions. It doesn't always mean that one person looked at it logically and another person looked at it emotionally. Sometimes different logic will yield a different conclusion.

FWIW, here's the way I see it. ALPA (national) has a clear conflict of interest in representing both mainline pilots and regional pilots. ALPA's attorneys represent ALPA National and, therefore, their advice by definition is subject to the same conflict of interest. Same goes with ALPA EF&A. I honestly do not know how you can solve that problem other than something like DPA.

DALPA, even to this day, refuses to even talk about restoration. Quite the contrary, we constantly get communications that make the case for the company and appear to be intended to manage our expectations. DALPA appears to have no objective whatsoever with regard to restoration. While there are certainly some in our midst who have lowered their expectations for this career and can live with that... many of us simply cannot and will not. To make matters worse... in spite of the fact that we are now HALF A DECADE into a compensation structure that was designed for bankruptcy and to prevent liquidation of the company, and this bankruptcy/emergency has been OVER for almost half a decade... DALPA refuses to even approach the company about a mid contract partial pay restoration (preferably using SWA compensation as a baseline model) and ask them to simply do the right thing. This seems like a total no-brainer to me. Ask them to do the right thing and let's "press to test" the function of this "proactive engagement" thing we've put so much time and effort into. But when discussing this with members of the MEC, we get the same tired old "what are you willing to give up to get that" mentality. Give me a break. What more could anyone possibly think we should give up??

Now I don't see any of that as being "emotional." Maybe you do because it doesn't line up with your logic and/or your loyalties. I could just as easily make the case that our MEC's argument against restoration is emotional based on fear. Even much of the anti-DPA argument seems to me to be fear based.

Anyway, FWIW, just my 2 cents...