I guess I'm late to the party, sorry.

If you were the moderator, you could delete those old posts so no one could respond.

 

You are seriously comparing Delta's likelihood of being released to that of Spirit's???? Are you really that delusional?

 

You're not listening. Yes there would be additional political pressure on the NMB to not release Delta pilots to strike when compared directly to Spirit, but that's not the point. The point is ALPA/DALPA/tsquare saying the NMB is now a barrier to striking and using APA as your "proof." It's simply not true. The NMB doesn't operate that way.

If you make strategic mistakes in the process, then yes, the NMB won't budge in their process. If you do things correctly, the NMB will release you to strike. The fact that ALPA is using the NMB as the excuse to never be able to strike again is the salient point in this discussion. Why a union would actively be looking for excuses as to why they can longer strike is THE point regarding Mr. Moak's ALPA.

Carl

 

Carl,

You are incorrect with regard to the NMB and American does serve as a very relevant example.

There is another consideration however ... the legitimacy of the bargaining agent to call a strike. I would not cross an ALPA line because our leadership has earned my trust sufficient for me to hand them my resignation notice for the purpose of negotiation. I can not say the same at this point for the DPA. The fact the DPA is even making an issue (if you purport to speak for the DPA) of a strike this early suggests my concerns with their lack of strategic thought are well founded.

I think the last "choke the golden goose until it gives up it's last egg" was United. Their contract fight resulted in their being the first major to declare bankruptcy. The ensuing restructuring transferred pension obligations and destroyed their contract. United's employees who "bought the company" lost their investment and then some. Delta patterned off of United and got the same result.

I supported the American pilots and still think they were morally correct. The Judge ( and the Real World ) fully vindicated ALPA's position.

FWIW, that's the recent history. How does the DPA think we would avoid the perils that United, Delta, Northwest and American all succumbed to?

 

I prefer to not be in that position to prove that I am a badass.

So let's suppose you are right, and to a degree I actually agree with you that the NMB WOULD at some point in time release us. How bad would things have gotten to have reached that point? Yup. DAL is printing money right now, and yup.. we deserve more of it. The unfortunate fact is that there is no other airline out there that has made any significant leaps over us in this process. UniCal didn't. AAMRQ certainly didn't. SWA? in negotiations, and probably won't either. So how can you rationalize that we would be released in what most would consider a timely fashion? Or more to the point, how are the doughnut boys gonna sell to the membership that they can get us released quickly to "force" the company to pony up a LOT more money? I know you don't believe in the time value of money, but I do, and Warren Buffet does, and I respect his money prowess a hell of a lot more than yours or certainly Tim Caplinger's. I'll take a little now, a little more next year rather than a little more than that in 5 years. YMMV.

 

Sorry ... I'll take any excuse to post a silly gif.

 

unposted..........

 

T, just joking around ... please don't take me seriously

Pulled it down, just in case.

 

Yeah I figured it out.

 

I am absolutely correct about the NMB. Statements of fear to the contrary are simply contrived fear. APA is an example. It is not the example that ALPA is so hoping you'll believe.

As someone whose actually had to do that twice in my career, I can assure you that you don't do it because of ALPA. You do it for your fellow brother pilots. It's natural to be scared about it, but you get over that fear by doing what is right for your brothers and for the profession.

I would hope you'll regret having said that after you think for a while. See the above post. You wouldn't be doing for DPA, you'd be doing it for your brothers who voted in the majority to take a stand. I simply don't believe you'd scab because our union was DPA.

This is an example of how discussion turns to hyperbole. When has DPA ever made this an issue? When have I? I've simply responded to people who are defending ALPA's use of the NMB as a scare tactic from ever being able to be tough in negotiations. Now you've turned this into an attempt to show DPA as lacking in strategic thinking? Really? Even if DPA has never said any such thing?

You're better than this kind of desperate political spin.

The pilots contract played no role in United's bankruptcy whatsoever. Same with Northwest, same with Delta. I know this is management's and ALPA's mantra, but you younger folks have simply got to stop being so easily influenced by what airline managers say. 9/11 is THE reason we all went bankrupt. The world economy lost TRILLIONS from it and we are still suffering the aftereffects.

Exactly what was ALPA's position Bar?

By being a union, knowing the law, and actually having the objective of restoring our profession. ALPA does not even have that objective. They used to years ago, but no longer. That's the issue Bar. That's why DPA has grown to the size it has. It's why United's effort at an independent union is growing rapidly.

Carl