American Airlines Pilots Revolt Against TSA
11-06-2010, 01:25 PM
#21
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Position: 747-400 Captain
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Originally Posted by Delta1067
Because bypassing as one of the "MANY other folks" requires being an employee and having a SIDA badge. Its easier for a terrorist to pose as an imposter pilot as opposed to getting hired by XYZ Airline, passing all the security checks and then gaining employment + SIDA badge.
Carl
11-06-2010, 01:54 PM
#22
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: 7er
Posts: 1,673
Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
Incorrect. It is just as easy if not easier to pose as the MANY OTHER FOLKS that get bypassed. SIDA badge? Yup, good thing they could never be compromised.
Carl
Carl
11-06-2010, 02:08 PM
#23
New Hire
Joined APC: Nov 2009
Position: 7ERB
Posts: 3
As a long time lurker I'm going to make my first post after returning to flying from being out for several years. BTW, what a difference a few years make.
This topic typifies the short sited window dressing approach our government seems to prefer. I understand the need for security and am willing to participate on any level necessary to facilitate this cause but believe there is a better way than what we presently have.
My concern is the overall lack of standards being applied to crews throughout the system. For example in several of our major "hub cities" we are allowed to bypass security via the "potato-masher" under the assumption that our airline I.D. and background checks have sufficiently vetted us as trusted individuals. In one city located in the western desert, think bright lights and show girls, the contracted van service drops us plane side on the tarmac. This is done with "only" the van driver showing his I.D. to a not so motivated security guard. Yet in other cities I'm being subjected to physical body searches that are just plain demeaning.
I'm certain we could collectively amass dozens of examples that demonstrate varying levels of security throughout the country. My concern is that we selectively enforce security law according to the whims of whichever local authority has control of the airport.
The only certain way to identify trusted crew members is with a biometric or physical system such as fingerprint/retinal identification. I'm not entirely familiar with the proposed system but is this not what Crew Pass is supposed to be? If so can anyone shed any light on why this system is not being rushed into service so that we can truly have one level of security throughout the airline industry while preserving our dignity.
This topic typifies the short sited window dressing approach our government seems to prefer. I understand the need for security and am willing to participate on any level necessary to facilitate this cause but believe there is a better way than what we presently have.
My concern is the overall lack of standards being applied to crews throughout the system. For example in several of our major "hub cities" we are allowed to bypass security via the "potato-masher" under the assumption that our airline I.D. and background checks have sufficiently vetted us as trusted individuals. In one city located in the western desert, think bright lights and show girls, the contracted van service drops us plane side on the tarmac. This is done with "only" the van driver showing his I.D. to a not so motivated security guard. Yet in other cities I'm being subjected to physical body searches that are just plain demeaning.
I'm certain we could collectively amass dozens of examples that demonstrate varying levels of security throughout the country. My concern is that we selectively enforce security law according to the whims of whichever local authority has control of the airport.
The only certain way to identify trusted crew members is with a biometric or physical system such as fingerprint/retinal identification. I'm not entirely familiar with the proposed system but is this not what Crew Pass is supposed to be? If so can anyone shed any light on why this system is not being rushed into service so that we can truly have one level of security throughout the airline industry while preserving our dignity.
11-06-2010, 02:15 PM
#24
The Brown Dot +1
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: 777B
Posts: 7,775
Originally Posted by Delta1067
People that bypass with a SIDA badge have to swipe the badge and enter a password. You can't simply have a fake SIDA badge to bypass security. On the other hand, you can have a fake pilot ID and gain access thru a TSA check point.
Yes you are correct, you have to swipe the SIDA badge then key in the code...So the F what! Do you even know what security is versus is not?
Without exaggeration 30-50% of the SIDA badge swiping code entering security bypassers at my airport are refugees-of some type (ethiopian, arabic, etc. English as a distant second language) I am not profiling or insinuating anything here except that their history in the US is limited.
Serious question #1: How thorough do you think their background check was with their limited history in the US?
Serious question #2 how difficult would it be for them to give their ID and code to someone else?
Do you think the refugee is a greater or lesser threat than an Iowa grandma or a 3 year old or a licensed US pilot in or out of uniform? If you say lesser or equal you are not being honest. And there they go right thru security.
How about a greater or lesser threat or more thorough background check than the multitudes of former military pilots at DAL - some with current or former advanced security clearances.
I could go on but there are only two types of people on this debate: Those that know that what we have is not security and those that wouldnt know security if it hit them in the head.
11-06-2010, 02:42 PM
#25
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Position: 747-400 Captain
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Originally Posted by Delta1067
People that bypass with a SIDA badge have to swipe the badge and enter a password. You can't simply have a fake SIDA badge to bypass security. On the other hand, you can have a fake pilot ID and gain access thru a TSA check point.
But to further illustrate the double standard with flight crews, I used to have a SIDA badge at my base. I used to be able to bypass with all the other airport personnel. They still get to, we pilots do not.
Once again, the public searching of flight crews is a show for passengers. There is no logic based argument to defend it.
Carl
11-06-2010, 02:46 PM
#26
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Joined APC: Apr 2008
Position: 747-400 Captain
Posts: 12,487
Originally Posted by scambo1
-------------
Yes you are correct, you have to swipe the SIDA badge then key in the code...So the F what! Do you even know what security is versus is not?
Without exaggeration 30-50% of the SIDA badge swiping code entering security bypassers at my airport are refugees-of some type (ethiopian, arabic, etc. English as a distant second language) I am not profiling or insinuating anything here except that their history in the US is limited.
Serious question #1: How thorough do you think their background check was with their limited history in the US?
Serious question #2 how difficult would it be for them to give their ID and code to someone else?
Do you think the refugee is a greater or lesser threat than an Iowa grandma or a 3 year old or a licensed US pilot in or out of uniform? If you say lesser or equal you are not being honest. And there they go right thru security.
How about a greater or lesser threat or more thorough background check than the multitudes of former military pilots at DAL - some with current or former advanced security clearances.
I could go on but there are only two types of people on this debate: Those that know that what we have is not security and those that wouldnt know security if it hit them in the head.
Yes you are correct, you have to swipe the SIDA badge then key in the code...So the F what! Do you even know what security is versus is not?
Without exaggeration 30-50% of the SIDA badge swiping code entering security bypassers at my airport are refugees-of some type (ethiopian, arabic, etc. English as a distant second language) I am not profiling or insinuating anything here except that their history in the US is limited.
Serious question #1: How thorough do you think their background check was with their limited history in the US?
Serious question #2 how difficult would it be for them to give their ID and code to someone else?
Do you think the refugee is a greater or lesser threat than an Iowa grandma or a 3 year old or a licensed US pilot in or out of uniform? If you say lesser or equal you are not being honest. And there they go right thru security.
How about a greater or lesser threat or more thorough background check than the multitudes of former military pilots at DAL - some with current or former advanced security clearances.
I could go on but there are only two types of people on this debate: Those that know that what we have is not security and those that wouldnt know security if it hit them in the head.
Carl
11-06-2010, 03:17 PM
#27
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: 7er
Posts: 1,673
Originally Posted by Carl Spackler
They do not! Just watch the number of airport personnel that walk through the detectors, set them off, and just keep on walking.
But to further illustrate the double standard with flight crews, I used to have a SIDA badge at my base. I used to be able to bypass with all the other airport personnel. They still get to, we pilots do not.
Once again, the public searching of flight crews is a show for passengers. There is no logic based argument to defend it.
Carl
But to further illustrate the double standard with flight crews, I used to have a SIDA badge at my base. I used to be able to bypass with all the other airport personnel. They still get to, we pilots do not.
Once again, the public searching of flight crews is a show for passengers. There is no logic based argument to defend it.
Carl
11-06-2010, 03:46 PM
#28
The Brown Dot +1
Joined APC: Jun 2009
Position: 777B
Posts: 7,775
Originally Posted by Delta1067
That simply doesn't happen. I have never seen anyone airport worker set off security alarms and just keep walking. You clearly don't know what you are talking about and your far fetched and invalid points don't hold any water.
The airport workers go thru the security bypass, no alarm to set off.
11-06-2010, 04:08 PM
#30
Gets Weekends Off
Joined APC: Jul 2010
Position: 7er
Posts: 1,673
Originally Posted by scambo1
TSA workers set off the metal detectors all the time.
The airport workers go thru the security bypass, no alarm to set off.
The airport workers go thru the security bypass, no alarm to set off.
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