GasNGo

It looks like I'll be leaving the Air Force soon, with more than enough hours to be hired by one of the Majors. My one obstacle to being hired would seem to be my lack of contacts on the "inside". From what I have heard this is pretty much a requirement.

I'm currently scoping ANG units, where supposedly the references flow like the swallows at capastrano. My question is, for everyone else where did YOU meet your references? With enough hours can I get a job without knowing people at the airlines I'm looking at? (Delta being the primary.) I'm trying to get a job independant of the military and would like to get one before going ANG.

Didn't put this in the "military" section because it's aimed more at established airline guys who did it without the ANG crutch.

Patch

I was just helping a buddy with this very thing this morning. When I applied at SWA, I gave them 6 letters. Some guys/gals give more, some less... to each his own. Of those letters, only two were from SWA pilots. I picked the other four based on the length of our friendship/working relationship and their qualifications/positions in the AF. Stan Eval guys and Commanders are good bets. Airlines know exactly what those positions entail. Pilots you've flown in combat with and guys that have given you checkrides are all good bets.
Good luck.

Patch

KC10 FATboy

You are WAY behind the power curve. There are many issues here that you need to learn fast. I'm not trying to beat you up. I'm telling it like it is so that you and others don't make the same mistakes.

1. After separation, you will enter the individual ready reserves (IRR). (I think that is the name) You have no requirements while in the IRR except that the USAF will send you forms to update your contact information should they need to call you back. Additionally, they may send a medical form for your doctor to sign acknowledging that you still healthy.

BUT THIS NEXT POINT IS VERY IMPORTANT, you will still meet promotion boards while you are in the IRR. This means, if you leave as a Captain, you WILL BE passed over for your Majors board in the IRR. Why are people in the IRR meeting promotion boards? I don't know, just keep reading.

After you are passed over twice, you will be unable to join any ANG or Reserve unit again. Period. Nada. Do not pass Go, Do not collect $200. I know three dudes who were totally screwed by this. The USAF never told them when they separated on the last VSP.

If you have any inclination that you will be going to the Reserves or Guard, you need to WORK THOSE CONTACTS RIGHT NOW! You can't afford to meet a board and get passed over. You need OPRs on file from the ANG or Reserve to remain competitive. Either way, in the IRR or Reserves/ANG, if you don't make Major, you can not stay in. They will force separate you. In fact, the units will not even hire you if they know that you've already met your boards and weren't promotable.

NOW ... all this airline stuff.

Yes you can get a job without contacts, but you are stacking the deck against yourself by doing so. You need to network network network! You've completed a couple of tours in the Air Force. You must know someone who is at the airlines. Get on Facebook, start phoning friends, send emails. Even if you have to go through a friend of a friend of a friend to find a long lost contact, do it. The worst that they'll say is no. At a minimum, get letters of recommendation from a squadron commander, DO, or chief stan eval person -- someone who can attest firsthand to your flying ability. You may want to have these letters addressed to each specific airline. But generic letters work fine too. If you can, make sure they have a real signature on them -- no photo copies. Also make sure they include contact information should they want to contact your peeps.

If you are up for separation near term, you have a lot of things you need to do fast.

FAA Certificates: ATP, Commercial, Instruments with Multi-Engine privileges. FE Written or FEX Basic Turbojet Test (for the cargo companies)

FAA Medical: First Class ... hopefully no waivers of restrictions.

Applications: Have you even started them? Are they current and on file? Update them after every sortie you fly if possible. Do you know your driving history? If not, get online and submit for a copy. DO NOT LIE ... DO NOT ASSUME that they're never find out about that speeding ticket in Boise back in 1980. They will. And if you lie, you'll be fired. No questions asked.

Fitness/Health: Get your cholesterol in check.

Interview Prep: Tell me about yourself/Tell me about a time/Why do you want to work here/Why our airline type of questions. Have you studied the gouge? The aviation tests they give you are hard. In the interview, they don't want to hear 11-202Vol3 crap. They want to see if you know FAR stuff. They don't have time to or the money to teach you all that stuff .. you're expected to show up knowing it. Do you know the sim profiles? What aircraft they will use?

Interview Suit: conservative here, nothing flashy or trendy.

Recency of flying. Many airlines can not hire you if you don't have flying time within the previous 6 months. So if you separate and you don't have a flying gig, you run the risk of going non-current. See above (RES/ANG)

Flying Time. I don't know what you flew in the USAF. But if you flew a heavy, expect not to use Other time. Some airlines will not let you use it towards your total time or PIC calculation. Bring the SARMs product. DO NOT bring your own log unless it is civilian time. BE CONSERVATIVE. You need at least 1000 PIC hours and 1500 TT for most airlines. To be competitive, you will need more. Instructor is always PIC, evaluator time may not be. Check the airline's website or phone a friend. Do not assume anything.

Resume & Cover Letter: Do you have the correct format? DON'T use a confusing military resume that has gobs and gobs of information on the resume. The resume should be clean, elegant, and state the main points but not the details (that is what the interview is for). Stay away from military jargon if possible. APC has a sample resume available online to use an example. Use it. Do you have cover letters? Are they addressed to the correct people with the correct addresses? Are you using the proper company name on the resume/letter? For example, it isn't Delta Airlines. It is Delta Air Lines (you'll learn why if you get here).

Meet & Greets: Are there any companies hosting airline meet and greets? Kit Darby (google him) usually hosts these type of things. Go to them if you can. Also, Women in Aviation (WIA) and Organization of Black Airline Pilots (OBAP) hosts these as well. Go to them. No, you don't have to be a girl or a person of color, but you have to be a member. You'll figure it out.

You must start working your contacts. Internal recommendations are huge. It is sad, but the reality is this industry is about who you now, now what you know or your flying time. The airlines like military pilots, but they don't like arrogant military pilots who think they're deserving of an airline job because of "their training", their service to the country, etc.etc. They want humble, safe, and competent pilots. Good luck. Call your buddies.

Marvin

@KC10 FATboy: Outstanding advice!

I will add that, regarding the meet and greets, those things are extremely important (as was stated in your message). I retired from the USAF in 2008 and was hired by 2 Majors (if they call you, more often than not they want to hire you) before the economic crunch came along and resulted in all my other scheduled interviews being canceled. The 2 Majors who hired me got a chance to see my resume and talk to me for a few minutes at job fairs -- I think I might have gotten calls from them anyway, but it may have taken longer.

If you start digging among folks you have flown with in the military, you might be surprised to find out how many are now in the airlines. Hopefully they like you. :-)

Best of luck.

Patch

2nd that for the Fatboy... Good Advice!!

PilotFrog

I am one of the three FatBoy mentioned in regards to the IRR. One thing to add is if you got a line number for major, but get out before you pin on, then you do not meet the afore mentioned boards and will be elligible for Guard/Reserve. Of course they will mess up and still put your name before the boards, so make sure you get in contact with the people in CO i think and inform them that you have a line number.

GasNGo

Thanks for the advise! I already have got a lot of that stuff going. Unfortunatly, due to the "weakness" in the industry over the past few years, most of my buds that left are not employed by a major. They are mostly in "less desireable" positions overseas or at charters. None at Southwest, Delta, Continental ect...

I did not know about the promotion in IRR status. VERY GOOD TO KNOW.

Thanks again for all the advise! I will pass it along to my buds.

1Seat 1Engine

All I can say is dig deep. I've been getting phone calls and e-mails from guys I flew with 10 years ago.

They don't have to be "bro's", they just have to be able to attest to your judgement/flying etc.

I gotta think you have former commanders, pilot training instructors, dudes who might not be in your peer group who can help you.

Also, find out who the Delta military hiring MFWIC is. Each airline has kind of a self appointed "dude" who can be a gateway to great hiring information. I know who it would be at SWA or FEDEX but don't know who at Delta although I would know where to start asking.

KC10 FATboy

We're all in this together. My bros helped me get hired at DAL. I'm very thankful for that. I feel it is my responsibility to make sure the torch is passed on to those coming after me.