Kellwolf

So, what's to stop someone like US Airways from spooling up a regional arm and then underbidding every DCI carrier in order to get money from Delta to subsidize their own operation? If US Airways (or United or whoever)'s scope allows for it, it's an ingenious way to take money from a competitor and put it in your own pocket. I've honestly been shocked that United is perfectly okay subsidizing a direct competitor in DEN through RAH.

Might not be a "slam dunk," but the papers need to be filed and the court battle fought a some point just to set precedent on the issue for down the road. Otherwise, Skywest is gonna ramp up a start up operation with Airbuses (or the 100 seat CRJs) and use everyone's money against them. Same could happen at any regional, and there's not a damn thing anyone could do about it without some sort of legal decision to point to.

dosbo

Ever hear of skinning a cat? I'm sure it's very messy but it can be done, you just have to kill the cat before skinning it.

Eliminate the profitablity of outsorcing and eventually the bean counters will see it's cheaper to insource the flying.

Problem is, either way someone is going to get hurt. It's more of a question of what is the better long term outcome for the career.

captainv

And how would you do that, exactly? Delta used to own most of its regional flying, now they've outsourced almost all of it. Although this would seem to give the contracting carriers the profit Delta once could keep for itself, it does have the added benefit of allowing Delta to set performance targets without having to worry about how to get there. And Delta can use bad performance as additional leverage to whipsaw the contracting regionals.

How will you make insourcing cheaper? Where should the line be drawn between regional/mainline? Your contract controls the flying, so it's really up to you.

dosbo

How is the wage you are willing to work at up to me? You chose the contract you are working for and it is up to you to negotiate your wages and work rules to appropriate rates. You are flying "regional jets" that are as large as some old mainline aircraft, on routes that used to be mainline. Shouldn't you expect to get mainline wages? That is up to you.

Personally as a furloughee I have declined four jet for job offers because second year FO wage at any regional is just unacceptable compensation.
As an adult I have a family to support and a mortgage to pay, I don't have the luxury of working at an airline as a hobby.

I guess I should just accept that this career is doomed with the endless supply of new pilots willing to work for peanuts, and regional pilots still believing that the majors will be hiring soon. With the age 65 retirements I believe there will be a retirement of mainline aircraft as well with more outsourcing.

Good luck with your career at your regional, I hope you have chosen wisely.

jayme

The reason regional pilots work for less is because they are competing for work with other regional pilot groups. You saw what happens when pilots get too expensive with the demise of Comair and ACA, and now Horizon. Regional pilots don't lack self-worth, they lack leverage. That leverage was given away with the selling of scope by major airline pilot groups for their own short-term gain. Pure foolishness. Blaming the pilots who are taking the regional jobs is utterly moronic.

Phuz

OK You are not to blame, it's my fault for taking your job and your plane on your routes at my crappy pay. I agree.

So, are you gonna say the same thing when I start year 1 at DAL and i'm making $54 compared to your $108? Half the pay, but somehow that is okay because its only for 1 year????

Its a slippery slope, under your logic the $18k/yr flight instructor is also to blame for the demise of our profession by accepting his low pay. And the student pilot for even being willing to pay for his own training in the first place. What a moron that guy is, right?

Maybe we should have all just joined the military, then we wouldn't be 'paying' for our experience eh Comrade?

My opinion is that if you intend to keep your mainline job for the next 10/20/30 years, you should seriously look at bringing your customers back to your product. Do you honestly think they are being served as well by the minimum wage workers at Republic/Mesa/ASA/Skywest/Mesaba/Pinacle/Compass as they are by your own staff? I've seen it first hand, I guarantee you that they are not. If you want to preserve your career, you should focus on getting the flying back to where you can provide a quality product to your customer; just my opinion of course.

STR8NLVL

^^^^^^^ what he said! ^^^^^^^^^

80ktsClamp

Easy now, don't group that yahoo into us at DAL. Notice he's on furlough.. we have no one on furlough.

TonyWilliams

These posts were removed from "RAH/F9 et al, Single Carrier Status Announced" thread in the Major Forum.

Keep it civil.

FLEX

While that is certainly a reason, I would say that "shortsightedness" is the primary cause. The regional job is a means-to-an-end for most in the industry. Get your thousand hours of PIC and then move on to your career airline.